Wednesday, January 9, 2013

A Look at the Dangerous, Scary, and Downright Unusual Items our Officers Found in 2012

Inert Mortar Round (ELP)
Inert Mortar Round (ELP)
After screening 637,582,122 passengers in 2012 (around 1,746,800 a day), here are some of the more dangerous, scary, and downright unusual items our officers found in 2012. This post is a reflection of the outstanding work our officers are doing in the field thanks to their vigilance and attention to detail.

Top 5 Airports for Gun Finds: 1 - ATL, 2 - DFW, 3 - PHX, 4 - IAH, 5 - FL1,556* (*Updated 7/3/13) firearms have been discovered in carry-on bags at checkpoints across the country. That’s a little over four firearms per day! Of those, 1,215 (78.7%) were loaded. Firearms have been found at a total of 199 airports with Atlanta (ATL) on top of the list - 95 in 2012. 


A disassembled gun and ammunition concealed in three stuffed animals.
Gun and Ammunition Concealed In Stuffed Animals
Here are a few of the more notable firearm incidents: 

A gun in a hollowed out book was discovered at Honolulu (HNL).

Gun In Book (HNL)

While the number of firearms discovered this year might shock you, here are some explosively dangerous items that passengers attempted to travel with this year: 

Six lbs. of black powder, detonation cords, and timing fuse were discovered at Grand Junction (GJT)

A live blasting cap was discovered in a passenger’s carry-on bag at Redmond (RDM).

Live Blasting Cap (RDM)
A live 40mm high explosive grenade was discovered at Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW).

Live 40mm Grenade (DFW)

In addition to the live explosives items mentioned above, we also find a lot of inert items that look like the real deal. The problem with these types of items is that we don’t know if they are the real deal until we call out the bomb experts, and sometimes even they have a hard time figuring it out. Inert items can lead to closed terminals and checkpoints, which usually result in canceled or delayed flights. Here are some of the more interesting  inert items we’ve found so far this year: 

An inert IED with a block of simulated SEMTEX-H, and a simulated blasting cap were discovered in checked baggage at Columbus (CSG).

Inert IED (CSG)
A strange watch resembling an IED component was discovered at Oakland (OAK).

Watch Resembling IED Component (OAK)
An inert detonator was discovered in a passenger’s pocket during a pat-down search after a Charleston (CHS) passenger alarmed the body scanner.

Inert Detonator (CHS)

Eeels found in bag at Miami.
And of course, there are those items that fit into the odd/interesting category. A few examples would be bear mace in a sock, a spear gun, dead venomous snakes, a chastity belt, more cane swords than you could shake a cane sword at, a shocking amount of stun guns, a gassed up chainsaw, an 8oz. bottle of vodka discovered in a passenger's pants, a knife mounted on a walker, eels, prohibited bling, a marijuana filled grenade, another speargun, samurai swords, a stun cane, and jingle bell shotgun shells.

While this doesn’t fall into any of the categories above, it deserves to be mentioned that last August, two Behavior Detection Officers (BDO) at Miami (MIA) thwarted a kidnapping. Read more about it here.

You can check out our archives of TSA Week in Review posts to see pictures and read about many other instances where dangerous, scar, and odd items are found. Our Week in Review posts are published every Friday evening.


Speargun, swords, stun cane, chainsaw, and shotgun shells.
Bear mace, pen gun, gun in book, seal bombs, inert claymore mine.
IED training kits and intert explosives, grenade launcher, black powder, propane, det cord.
Inert bazooka, inert claymore mines, inert bazooka shell.
Powder Horn with black powder, powder flask with black powder, blasck powder primers, intert warheads.

TSA Blog Team 

If you have a travel related issue or question that needs an immediate answer, you can contact us by clicking here.

128 comments:

RB said...

After screening 637,582,122 passengers or 1,275,164,244.00 shoes TSA didn't find one single case of explosive shoes.

So why are people being made to remove shoes thereby subjecting their feet to a dangerous industrial area?

Anonymous said...

but my pocket knife from a camping trip got through. (after discovering it after the check point I took it back to the car....)

Anonymous said...

Thank god & bless our vigilant airport security staff in making our travel a lot safer, i wish a blessing that our air travel continues safely in 2013

Bankimkumar said...

What a wonderful work done by TSA?!!!
You saved American lives to GREAT EXTENT.
Please continue such a best efforts in future years. TSA should get appreciation from whole world.
Best luck.

Anonymous said...

Gun in Stuffed Animals
Hmm I grew up with Mickey Mouse cartoons and always thought he was to good to be true - very glad he was found out on the day :)

Anonymous said...

okay, the south USA wins!

Anonymous said...

Good job! You cleared all those negative comments off the front page.

Silent Night said...

You still will find "them people" who will find fought, but let you're little heart not be troubled, noting will ever make "them people" happy. Keep up the great work TSO's and BDO'S.

Thank you

JexQ said...

In before the "oh, it's inert so it poses no danger" crowd.

Anonymous said...

This is amazing. I will never for the life of me understand why someone would want to even try to transport some (any) of those items. On the plus side, at some point (once out of jail) we can be assured that they will be at least contenders for a Darwin award. And I suppose just as scary is that they still let these people breed.

Anonymous said...

MOST of what was "found" is/was inert. Does anyone at TSA know what "inert" means?

Anonymous said...

Very interensting post, thank you. As a travel manager this kind of encourages me to more strongly recommend telepresence and virtual meeting technology.

Anonymous said...

Wow. One single

h

u

g

e

post to push all the others off the front page. Good going, Bob.

Anonymous said...

i always find these blogs informative, humorous and sometimes baffling as to what stupid will normally do or take through an airport. Always a pleasure and thanks for the laughs Bob!

HARIQBAL SINGH said...

TSA IS DOING VERY GOOD JOB. ONE SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY OBJECTION FOR REMOVING SHOES, IT IS FOR OUR LIFE SECURITY AS COMMENTED BY RB

Anonymous said...

So why do you need full body scanners again? And why do we have to remove shoes??

Anonymous said...

When i see a couple IED's components being discovered you have to start to wonder if these arr just a isolated dumb mistakes or a trial and error approach by a larger group!

Anonymous said...

Still wondering what danger the chastity belt posed to our air travel.

Anonymous said...

Worst. Title. Ever. LOL!

Hilarious to see how quickly TSA employees are commenting anonymously or pseudonymously this time. As one put it, they had to hurry up and comment before people called Bob back to reality (on the inertness of many items).

Seriously, Bob, is that you posting these or these kinds of comments on your own blog post?

Otherwise, TSA employees are using gov't time and equipment to post on a gov't website without revealing their connection to TSA. That is very unethical. Is it also against TSA or DHS policy?

Have you checked into that, Bob? Fake comments and fake commenters? You have the IP addresses of commenters. Easy to see which ones are DHS or TSA domains.

Maybe look in the mirror or walk down the hall to your co-workers' offices?

Let's all get real for once, Bob. We aren't going to cower in fear in our homes because you cry, "DANGER!! TERRORIST!!! I HAVE NO REAL PROOF! BUT LOOK AT THIS SCARY THING!!!"

We're here. We have no fear. Get used to it.

Anonymous said...

Bob said:

A Portland (PDX) passenger put a pistol in potted plant, presumably in an effort to sneak it past us.

___________________________________

I will ignore the rest of the lies and spin in the post and focus on this. You know damn well that the pistol was not put in the plant to sneak it past you. You know that he put it in the plant because he DIDN'T want to bring it to the checkpoint.

You, Bob, are a liar.

Anonymous said...

What is the big deal about finding these items? Isn't that your job? I don't see the point of announcing all of the guns. If you can't find a gun, what else would you be missing.

I have noticed that almost everything found is discovered by the metal detector and baggage x-ray. The body scanners seem to only find items that aren't a threat to aviation, like toothpaste or bottles of vodka. I don't see the benefit of the scanners when they have many health and privacy issues, along with how expensive they are.

How many of the people who had the prohibited items were charged with terrorism?

Anonymous said...

Why do we still have to remove our shoes? Almost every other country does not require shoe removal anymore. No planes have fallen from the sky in those countries so their security must be as good as ours. By the way, the shoe bomber's flight didn't originate in the US.

How many explosive shoes have you found in the 10+ years since the shoe bomber's failed attempt? I hope you have found at least one since we still have to remove our shoes and no other countries require it.

Wintermute said...

And, out of ALL those travelers, how many terrorists have you caught? So, tell me again, with a lower percentage of terrorists on flights, why every passenger is a suspect, but with a higher percentage of thieves in your mists, every TSAgent is not?

Anonymous said...

What's frightening is what TSA didn't find.

RB said...

HARIQBAL SINGH said...
TSA IS DOING VERY GOOD JOB. ONE SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY OBJECTION FOR REMOVING SHOES, IT IS FOR OUR LIFE SECURITY AS COMMENTED BY RB

January 9, 2013 11:44 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Since you mention me directly I ask of you to demonstrate that TSA is doing a very good job. What evidence can you show to support this claim?

I can show that from the last Red Team testing results available to the public that TSA screeners missed 70% of all target items.

I can show that DFW TSA screeners missed a handgun carried through DFW TSA checkpoints 5 out of 5 times by a TSA security tester.

I can show that a significant number of TSA employees are thieves, drug dealers, or other criminal types which cannot help improve airport security.

I can show that TSA doesn't screen all peoples who enter the secure areas of airports. How does that make anyone any safer?

I can show how TSA policies endanger peoples health. Just walking through a checkpoint with numerous hazards to peoples feet where TSA requires people to be shoeless is one such example.

TSA's use of unproven and untested Xray devices on people endangers everyone, especially TSA employees who are forbidden to wear a xray exposure dosimeter.

TSA's useless ID screening takes valuable manpower away from real screening functions yet offers exactly nothing of value in return, hardly makes anyone safer.

So HARIQBAL SINGH, I invite you to explain how TSA is making anyone more secure.

TSA as a whole is a complete eight billion dollar a year failure!

America deserves a better return on our taxes.


Anonymous said...

What's frightening is the stuff TSA didn't find.

Anonymous said...

I am proud of the great job you are doing for our safety. Keep up the good work.

Anonymous said...

1,543 firearms have been discovered in carry-on bags at checkpoints across the country. That’s a little over four firearms per day! To add some context, the number of passengers with guns represents less than 0.0002 percent of passengers that have been screened.

Funny how that works, Mr. Burns. Why is the number of TSOs fired for workplace crimes so small that you think we should easily dismiss it, but the infinitesimal number of passengers found with weapons is worth writing a weekly police log?

As the events of 9/11/01 become more and more a distant memory, with a new generation of travelers who were not even born that day, the backlash against your agency, and the feeling that its employees are putting Americans more in harm's way than keeping them safe, will only continue to mount.

But heck, the TSA pays your bills, so what do you care that you work for the most despised government agency out there.

[Screenshot captured]

Anonymous said...

Sorry guys, this stuff is pretty obvious on the screen. These folks still don't have all the training they need.

Anonymous said...

And yet:

None of these items were carried by terrorists.

No dangerous items found by your dangerous, invasive body scanners and "pat-downs."

No explosive shoes detected.

Why do you persist in a pointless shoe removal policy that makes no one safer?

Why do you persist in dangerous, untested scanners that make no one safer?

Anonymous said...

Thank you TSA for the job you do. Please continue to check our shoes and have full body scans. As someone who travels a lot, I want to feel the safest I can when I board the aircraft.

Anonymous said...

That will be the next idea... I don't mind at all, usually wear sneakers to the airport

Anonymous said...

"Please continue to check our shoes and have full body scans. "

Why? Neither makes anyone any safer.

RB said...

I will ignore the rest of the lies and spin in the post and focus on this. You know damn well that the pistol was not put in the plant to sneak it past you. You know that he put it in the plant because he DIDN'T want to bring it to the checkpoint.

You, Bob, are a liar.

January 10, 2013 8:03 AM
................

Nothing new about that. Bob has steadily twisted the truth into unrecognizable shapes for years now. As a government employee who supposedly has ethics and honesty standards I fail to understand just why these TSA bloggers are on the government payrolls.

Guess those vision statements from TSA about ethics and standards don't really have any true meaning.

TSA wouldn't know the truth if it walked up to a TSA checkpoint.

Manny O said...

There is so much moaning about how things are so impractical or unneccesary and yet no one is making a motion. If the screening procedures are so invasive/damaging/concerning, don't fly. Another option, why not offer new ideas and solutions instead of ridiculing what is going on now?
Yes, there are a number of officers that fall short of standards (Like any large organizaion) but that doesn't mean they are all similar.

Congrats to the officers who stopped the random weapons and threats from coming through, Shame to officers who discredite the rest.

Hope people come with ideas and solutions instead of problems so we can progress as a nation.

David said...

I wonder what the thought process was...."Hmmm they won't find this grenade launcher....."

RB said...

After screening 637,582,122 passengers in 2012 (around 1,746,800 a day or 6,375,820,000.00 passengers over the last 10 years there has never been a one case of a shoe bomb on a US originating flight. Not one before 9/11 or after. Yet TSA subjects almost everyone to shoe removal which hazards our feet to a dangerous industrial area of moving bags, electric belts, carts and other items that could cause serious injury to our unprotected feet not to mention to completely unsanitary condition of TSA checkpoints. Anyone ever see a floor being cleaned at a TSA checkpoint?

Yet on the other hand TSA tells us that .04% of TSA employees being thieves or other criminals is no cause of concern since it is such a low number of people.

How can TSA state a 0% incidence of shoe bombs justifies everyone hazarding their feet for TSA yet 100's of TSA employees being thieves is nothing to worry about.

TSA claims to be security experts but it is clear based on TSA policies that TSA, under the direction of John S. Pistole, hasn't a clue about airport security.

Time to end the sick joke that TSA is.

Anonymous said...

TSA bragging about finding odd items like a Chasity Belt is proof that TSA's authorization to conduct limited Administrative searches for WEI only is being exceeded and is proof of TSA civil rights violations.

TSA has no authority to conduct general searches and doing so is a violation of the law.

People need to start filing complaints with the police over TSA screeners civil rights violations.

Susan Richart said...

5212 ridaysc@Anonymous:

"to feel the safest I can when I board the aircraft."

You do realize that there is a difference between "feeling" safe and actually "being" safe. The whole premise of the TSA is to make you "feel" safe. It does nothing to make you "be" safe.

And, Bob, where did you find all those who wrote comments in support of the TSA? Did an advisory go out to all employees to chime in? It's so very obvious.

screen shot

Anonymous said...

Interesting fact: several airports, EWR, JFK and some others found very few, if any, handguns. The states in which those airports are located have very strict concealed carry permits.

Just sayin'.

Anonymous said...

How about the pictures of the terrorists you found?

Anonymous said...

After screening 637,582,122 passengers or 1,275,164,244.00 shoes TSA didn't find one single case of explosive shoes.

So why are people being made to remove shoes thereby subjecting their feet to a dangerous industrial area?

-------

Yes, because airport security is such a highly industrial area. oh no cement is on my socks! whatever will I do?!

Anonymous said...

"Another option, why not offer new ideas and solutions instead of ridiculing what is going on now?"

Nonsense. We've been offering new ideas and solutions for years:

End the shoe carnival; shoes are not dangerous and no other country shares TSA's fetish.

End the scanners; they're invasive, dangerous, take too long, and don't find anything dangerous.

End the BDO charade; there's zero science to back it up.

End the ID checks that do nothing to enhance security.

The problem is not that TSA's critics have nothing to offer. The problem is that TSA is so obstinate and resistant to truth and logic that it is not willing to engage with us.

Wintermute said...

Manny O said...
"There is so much moaning about how things are so impractical or unneccesary and yet no one is making a motion. If the screening procedures are so invasive/damaging/concerning, don't fly."

For many, not flying is not an option.

"Another option, why not offer new ideas and solutions instead of ridiculing what is going on now?"

We have. Countless times. In the comments on this very blog. Maybe try getting your facts straight before making a comment like that?


Anonymous said...

"As someone who travels a lot, I want to feel the safest I can when I board the aircraft."

And some say that this false sense of security you "feel" actually makes you LESS safe, not more.

Ever hear of the boy who cried wolf? Eventually, everyone started ignoring that boy. All those false alarms? Boys crying wolf. What happens when a wolf actually shows up? That false sense of security comes with a price.

Anonymous said...

Interesting how people cry civil rights violations at an airport checkpoint and nowhere else. Does one cry when a movie theater says you can't bring in your own food and drinks? Does one cry when you can't bring a weapon through a courthouse? How about if you're too big to fit in a ride at an amusement park? What do you mean I can't drive as fast as I want?
Nope...yet civil rights are violated at an airport...which civil rights are those? Show me where those rights are located. Buying a ticket is a contract. I want to fly therefore I won't bring the things they say I can't bring.

Seriously people...either quit crying or quit flying. Exercise your civil rights on the train or the roads...

Jeez... you americans are so soft...

atypical.oracle said...

Okay, some of these items are insane and yeah, if you bring a bunch of inert explosives into a freaking airport, you shouldn't be confused as to why you get into trouble.

On the other hand, my solid brass-headed cane gets X-rayed every time I fly and I have to hobble around barefoot on a bad leg because I might be a terrorist. Never mind that the cane could actually be used as a weapon... I guess... they still let me take it on the plane. No one is going to seize control of an aircraft with nail clippers or a lighter or a chastity belt.

By now, I don't think you could seize control of a plane with a gun, much less anything else.

The TSA is a billion dollar joke with a punchline that we'll never get to and certainly won't laugh at.

RB said...

Anonymous said...
Interesting how people cry civil rights violations at an airport checkpoint and nowhere else. Does one cry when a movie theater says you can't bring in your own food and drinks? Does one cry when you can't bring a weapon through a courthouse? How about if you're too big to fit in a ride at an amusement park? What do you mean I can't drive as fast as I want?
Nope...yet civil rights are violated at an airport...which civil rights are those? Show me where those rights are located. Buying a ticket is a contract. I want to fly therefore I won't bring the things they say I can't bring.

Seriously people...either quit crying or quit flying. Exercise your civil rights on the train or the roads...

Jeez... you americans are so soft...

January 10, 2013 6:15 PM
.......................
You demonstrate a distinct lack of understanding of what a civil rights violation entails.

Only government entities can violate civil rights, not private business.

If the airlines and airports wish to be responsible business owners and take care of security, which they should, then screening can be anyway they want.

However, as long as government is involved in screening every word, clause, and paragraph of the United Stated Constitution is enforce.

That is where TSA is in violation of our civil rights.

Anonymous said...

How come you TSA types are bragging about the Red Velvet Cupcakes TSA screeners confiscated?

Anonymous said...

"Interesting how people cry civil rights violations at an airport checkpoint and nowhere else."

**********************************

Most reasonable and rationale people have the expectation they are not going to be virtually stripped searched or inappropriately touched when they visit public venues. The same can't be said for US airports. If anyone touched a stranger like the TSA has license to do at an airport checkpoints, they would be arrested. Forget civil rights - the real issue regarding the TSA sordid practices has to do with basic human dignity. Clearly the TSA and its supporters like you have forgotten what human dignity means.

Anonymous said...

Remember flying is a priviledge, NOT a right. All of the spoiled, cry babies who do not like to be inconvenienced for 5 minutes, for safety sake, take Greyhound. I want to be safe and so does my entire family. TSA has kept us safe since 9-11 and that is the bottom line. It amazes me that so many Americans have forgotten the tragedy of 9-11 and the incompetence of the private screening force. To all that complain about TSA wake up and grow up!!!

Anonymous said...

It always amazes me how quickly Americans forgot 9-11. All the complainers out there are spoiled, cry babies, it is as simple as that. Just remember flying is a priviledge NOT a right. Take a bus or train, I for one want myself and family safe. 10 minutes of screening is well worth it. Since 9-11 air travel has NEVER been safer!!!

Anonymous said...

How about a retelling of the dangerous, scary and outright unusual items that TSOs stole from passengers last year?

https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=tsa+stole&src=typd

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Interesting how people cry civil rights violations at an airport checkpoint and nowhere else. Does one cry when a movie theater says you can't bring in your own food and drinks?

A Movie Theater is not the Government.

Does one cry when you can't bring a weapon through a courthouse?

Courthouses are for the trial of criminal suspects. Thus, there are criminals there. You can't take a gun into a jail, either.

How about if you're too big to fit in a ride at an amusement park?

An amusement park is not the Government.

What do you mean I can't drive as fast as I want?

...has nothing to do with Civil Rights.

Nope...yet civil rights are violated at an airport...which civil rights are those? Show me where those rights are located.

Well, the Rights are mentioned in the Constitution of the United States of America and the Amendments thereto. Specifically, for example, the 4th Amendment states: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

It is simply not reasonable to put people into scanners so they can be seen naked, when a simple metal detector would keep guns and knives off planes. it is not reasonable to make people take their shoes off. It is not reasonable to take water bottle (bought 50 feet away in the airport) and throw them away. Thus these are all UN-reasonable. And the 4th Amendment guarantees our right to be safe from these un-reasonable searches and seizures.

Buying a ticket is a contract.

Between me and the airline, nothing to do with the government.

Seriously people...either quit crying or quit flying. Exercise your civil rights on the train or the roads...

Firstly, a Right that you can only practice in some places, at certain times, and with permission... isn't a Right.

Second, The TSA has already started showing up at bus stations, train stations (although Amtrak sent them packing), roadside inspection stations, and their mother agency, the DHS, even have backscatter X-ray vans for scanning pedestrians.

Anonymous said...

Bob, why weren't my comments approved regarding the Anonymous commenter above who calls Americans "soft?" They were within the guidelines of this blog.

Anonymous said...

"Only government entities can violate civil rights, not private business."

Wow...what a blind statement. So when an owner of a restaurant refused to serve food to blacks...that was the government? Civil rights was being treated equally as the constitution guarenteed. I believe most races, ethnicities, age, and genger are treated equally at airports.

The issue isn't civil rights...it's not wanting to be touched and being told what you can bring onto a plane.

To play sports, one must be touched in an invasive manner by a stranger wearing a lab coat. Semantics would call that a physical. To go to college, one must get be stabbed with needles that transfer strange foreign agents. Again semantics would call that an inoculation.

CIVIL RIGHTS people!!! Who determines where the line is drawn??

TSORon said...

Anonymous said...
[[MOST of what was "found" is/was inert. Does anyone at TSA know what "inert" means?]]

Its very difficult to determine “inert” from not inert for the average layman. They look the same, in case you didn’t know that. And even if its marked “Inert”, it does not mean that it is. You think a terrorist cant figure out how to use a stencil and a spray can of paint?

Anonymous said...
[["Another option, why not offer new ideas and solutions instead of ridiculing what is going on now?"

Nonsense. We've been offering new ideas and solutions for years:]]

Yes Anon, you have. The options you have offered reduce the level of security, increase the threat to commercial aviation, or generally are either impractical or unworkable. Not all that helpful.

Give us some suggestions that might actually improve security and can be implemented and we can assess them. Going back to the security that didn’t work would be just plain stupid.

SSSS for some reason said...

"...Interesting how people cry civil rights violations at an airport checkpoint and nowhere else. "

Interesting how you completely fail to understand how Civil Rights work.

The 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendments in the Bill of Rights set limits on what the government can do to you regarding investigating potential crimes. The GOVERNMENT. The Government CAN NOT search you, your house, or your possessions without probable cause, the 4th Amendment forbids it.

The movie theater? That is private property owned by a private company. If you don't like the way they do business you take your business elsewhere.

The airport? If Delta airlines requires you to fly completely naked and you agree to that by purchasing a ticket you better strip before getting on that plane. Don't like naked, fly some other airlines.

The TSA? The TSA has two problems, The first... The TSA is a Government entity. The TSA is limited by the 4th Amendment by virtue of being an agent of the Government. The second... I can not 'take my business elsewhere' if I do not support the actions of the TSA. TSA is violating the Constitution and then practicing poor business practices that would be condoned as being a monopoly if they were a private sector operation.

Doc-it said...

DEAR SSSS, TSA operate upon one factor which allows its searches to be possible. it's called "Administrative Search..." all they have to do is post signs informing you of the impending search area and procedures that you will encounter if you wish to procede to the aircraft. If you do not wish to endure such searches then you CAN take your business elsewhere such as the Bus, or train(if available) Please don't complain about stuff you have complete control over. They do respect your rights and abide by the codes they are given. the ones who dont are terminated and then alienated for life... research topics such as administrative search and what it encompasses before you spout off mindless banter. :) my $0.02

SSSS for some reason said...

"..Give us some suggestions that might actually improve security and can be implemented and we can assess them. Going back to the security that didn’t work would be just plain stupid."

I have a simple suggestion for you that would cost about a third what the TSA costs and be several factors safer and more efficient....

1 - Walk Through Metal Detectors and carry-on baggage x-rays.

2 - Aggressive Scanning of checked bags.

3 - Reinforced cockpit doors and allow the pilots to be armed (stun-gun, bean-bag shooters, sharp pointy sticks.... guns if the Pilots have the correct paperwork)


All three of those would have prevented the September 11 atrocities.

All three of those would cost about 2 billion dollars nation wide.

All three of those would make flying genuinely Safe and not just give the illusion of safety.

Anonymous said...

Poor Bob. So many people beating him up for doing what he is paid to do, although he COULD make things better if he took some inititive.

Many very valid comments by Anonymous, and others.

In general, the TSA is not worth the expense.

I did not know that shoe bombs were "permitted items" on US inbound flights (useless check here) but it irks me to read one lady spent $15K to win a case against the TSA, amoung other travesties

Brandon Allred said...

Wanna know why you REALLY have to remove your shoes?

1) The walk through metal detectors they have at the airports aren't able to detect the foot area so well. So in other wards... you could easily get through airport security with a small knife or maybe even a small gun in your shoe.

2) About half the shoes out there have metal rods in the middle of them. So even if the metal detector always did pick up the feet area you would get TONS of more alarms and TSA would have a lot more difficult time doing there job.

I think the TSA does a great job protecting the public. Thanks TSA!

Anonymous said...

Security Theater for the Flouride Heads. Such a waste of taxpayer funds in the name of control.

SSSS for some reason said...

"...TSA operate upon one factor which allows its searches to be possible. it's called "Administrative Search..." "

Close, but not quite.

An administrative search is allowed if it is specific in its investigation and limited in scope. The DUI Check points are the best example, they are checking for drivers under the influence. There are two things that allow these kinds of stops....first, the cops can only check for DUI, meaning they can't also check your trunk for drugs while you are stopped. And second, they are voluntary meaning if you see the check point ahead and you turn onto another direction of traffic they cops can't stop you for avoiding the check point. They can stop you if you leave the line, but not if you turn another direction before 'entering' the check point.

The TSA does neither of those things. You can't skip the TSA and fly commercial airlines. You have a choice of Flying Commercial, or Not Flying Commercial. That is not a choice, that is coercion. And the TSA can stop you if they think you have too much money, like the lady they stopped with the stack of checks. The TSA can put you in a box and basically leave you there as long as they deem necessary and deny you your due process of law, like the lady with the breast milk. The TSA can make you remove jewelry for reasons that no one has been able to explain, like the lady that was told to remove the professionally installed t-bar in her nipple(s). The TSA can, and still does despite what they claim, frequently intimidate passengers with the question "do you want to fly today?"

The TSA Claims they are working under the Administrative Search doctrines, but it will eventually reach to the Supreme Court and I'll bet a dollar the TSA looses that battle when it does.

Wintermute said...

"research topics such as administrative search and what it encompasses before you spout off mindless banter."

I'd suggest you do the same, as what the TSA does exceeds the administrative searches they are allowed to do.

Wintermute said...

TSORon said...
"Give us some suggestions that might actually improve security and can be implemented and we can assess them."

We have. Over and over and over again. As a TSO, aren't you speaking above your pay-grade when you speak to this point?

"Going back to the security that didn’t work would be just plain stupid."

What didn't work about pre-9/11 security? Two things (well, more than two, but two were are play on 9/11, and some still haven't been corrected leaving a HUGE gap in security even now): Cockpit doors were not secure and passengers and crew were taught to cooperate with terrorists to increase their chance of survival. Both of these have changed.

Anonymous said...

I have a new hip since 2007; it is a nightmare to go through a USA security zone with it. I am wondering if it is possible to get a special card from TSA(register in your system) permitting me to check out quicker.

Angela said...

To RB:

Please, instead of complaining about how much TSA is a failure, tell us how you would do things differently.

If your not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

have a great day!

Mike Toreno said...

Angela:

"Please, instead of complaining about how much TSA is a failure, tell us how you would do things differently."

Fire all the clerks that don't know what a NEXUS card is or that try to stop passengers from taking photographs.

Anonymous said...

"Please, instead of complaining about how much TSA is a failure, tell us how you would do things differently."

End the shoe carnival; shoes are not dangerous and no other country shares TSA's fetish.

End the scanners; they're invasive, dangerous, take too long, and don't find anything dangerous.

End the BDO charade; there's zero science to back it up.

End the ID checks that do nothing to enhance security.

The problem is not that TSA's critics have nothing to offer. The problem is that TSA is so obstinate and resistant to truth and logic that it is not willing to engage with us.

Wintermute said...

Angela said...
"To RB:

"Please, instead of complaining about how much TSA is a failure, tell us how you would do things differently.

"If your not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

"have a great day!"

Angela,

If you would read through the blog, you would see that RB and others, myself included, have made suggestions for improvement. So, stop and consider this: was your comment part of the solution?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I have a new hip since 2007; it is a nightmare to go through a USA security zone with it. I am wondering if it is possible to get a special card from TSA(register in your system) permitting me to check out quicker.
-----------------
Nope. In fact, I had shoulder surgery that required a metal implant just a week before flying. It was extremely tender to say the least. The TSA agent took me to a patdown and "felt up" the surgery site on my shoulder which caused enormous pain. He could see the cut, the steri-tape, the sling, the obvious metal plate outline...but his excuse for touching the surgery site was "it could be a weapon you inserted into your shoulder." I kid you not. I didn't know the TSA was versed in anatomy and surgical procedures and prosthetics.

RB said...

Angela said...
To RB:


Please, instead of complaining about how much TSA is a failure, tell us how you would do things differently.

If your not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

have a great day!

January 15, 2013 at 11:51 AM
..................
To Angela,


I did exactly that in a response to TSOron but the TSA Blog Team in violation of my Right to Free Speech did not post that response even while it fully complied with the illegal TSA posting requirements.

TSA employees need to read the United States Constituion, the one they swore an oath to defend.

If TSA employees cannot honor their Oath they should resign from government service.

Better yet they should be jailed!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Angela said...
"To RB:
Please, instead of complaining about how much TSA is a failure, tell us how you would do things differently.
If your not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
have a great day!"
January 15, 2013 at 11:51 AM


Angela, a quick search of the comment section of the TSA Blog will reveal RB has offered suggestions several times, as well as correcting errors asserted by anonymous and non-anonymous TSA employees.

Here are a couple of suggestions from me, so you don't accuse me of being "part of the problem."

Harden and lock cockpit doors. - Done.

Make passengers and flight crew aware they do not always have to fully comply with a hijacker. - Done.

Stop taking naked pictures of flyers.

Start using WTMD (walk-through metal detectors) only for all passengers.

Stop sexually assaulting flyers. (Psst, TSA calls it "enhanced pat-down.")

Properly search or x-ray cargo and checked baggage, while securing such items from theft by TSA and airport employees.

Train TSA screeners how to properly x-ray carry-on luggage to catch disallowed items at a higher rate than 30%, while securing such items from theft by TSA and other passengers.

Stop the stupid liquid ban.

Stop the stupid shoe removal.

Stop the stupid multi-tool (Leatherman) ban.

Train TSA screeners on customer service and insist supervisors enforce customer service policies.

Reduce the number of TSA employees working at a checkpoint. In fact, reduce the overall number of TSA employees. Train and pay the remaining employees better and hold them to a higher standard.

Get rid of the fake-police uniforms. Go with a more professional and appropriate outfit.

Stop background checks for flyers. No American should have their private lives violated to fly.

Stop the two-tier system of "trusted" and "untrusted" travelers.

How's that?

Anonymous said...

A chastity belt? Seriously? Then don't forget the vibrator that was so "unusual" that a baggage screener was forced to write an embarassing, inapproprite message to the woman whose bag it was found in (and I'm sure you know that by his own admission there were other screeners in on the very tasteless "joke").

If you want to get respect, then you need to give respect. And please don't quote the tired statistics about how it's just one bad apple. You know very well that you're under the microscope. Every TSA agent should know this and behave in an appropriate manner.

Anonymous said...

Brandon Allred said...
Wanna know why you REALLY have to remove your shoes?

1) The walk through metal detectors they have at the airports aren't able to detect the foot area so well. So in other wards... you could easily get through airport security with a small knife or maybe even a small gun in your shoe.


Simple solution: a plastic ramp. Walk up the ramp and through the metal detector, and now your shoes are up in the area where the detector works.

No 80 billion dollars needed. No gropings needed. No handing women pliers and telling them to yank out their nipple piercings. No making nursing mothers taste their own breast milk. No terrorizing 11 year old girls (Still awaiting the Official TSA "we did everything Right" posting about that incident), no nudie-scopes, no throwing away water bottles.

Just a simple plastic ramp.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to know WHY a chastity belt is any business of the TSA and why it should be published. Yes it's odd, but this is a free country and there is nothing dangerous or illegal about this very private item. It sure as hell shouldn't be published on a public blog. What other personal items are TSA photographing and passing around for the other employees to snicker about? Extremely large sizes on undergarments? Personal prosthetic and/or sexual aid devices? I can only image what goes on with the body scanners. It's time to abolish this grade-school-mentality circus and get back to normal life again.

RB said...

Angela said...
To RB:

Please, instead of complaining about how much TSA is a failure, tell us how you would do things differently.

If your not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

have a great day!

January 15, 2013 at 11:51 AM
..............
Angela I tried to respond to your comment but again the TSA Blog Team has censored my perfectly compliant commment.

Seems a bit unfair that others can call me out but I have no ability to respond in kind. That is an example of TSA, a TSA that cares nothing but how to protect the agency regardless of the truth.

I think government employees who make civil rights violations a normal part of their day to be the problem.

I think government employees who fear opposing points of view to be the problem.

I think government employees who violate their Oath to Defend the United States Constitution to be the problem.

I think TSA is the problem.

Don't come complaining to me when we have direct evidence that TSA and its employees care nothing for sworn oaths and promises.

For proof of ongoing censorship by TSA, Blogger Bob, and the other members of the TSA Blog Team take a look at the Delete-O-Meter that shows 36% of all comments submitted to the TSA Blog are deleted without being published.

I have a suggestion for TSA, honor the Oaths taken to Defend the United States Constitution.

Screen shot taken.

Civil Rights complaint to DHS OIG pending release.

RB said...

Angela said...
To RB:


Please, instead of complaining about how much TSA is a failure, tell us how you would do things differently.

............................

Angela, I have demonstrated that shoe removal as required by TSA has little or no security benefit.

Today I forwarded the suggestion below to TSA.

This comprises two solid cost free action steps that TSA can take today.

Now where are your suggestions to improve airport security screening?

"TSA seems to be looking for ways to expand the TSA Pre Check program.

Why not include retired military in Pre Check?.

These people have a distinctive valid ID's issued by the military services and are acceptable for travel purposes by TSA.

Retired military members have demonstrated a high level of trust by being in the military service for at least 20 years.

TSA not recognizing retired military shows TSA's distrust for those service members who sacrificed to defend the United States."

Anonymous said...

A CHASTITY BELT??? What the heck?

Anonymous said...

Man oh man!

People do have a bone to pick with TSA! I went to the post office do have a package sent, they asked if there was anything dangerous or liquid inside of it. Maybe I should have said it was none of her business. But then I'd have the deliver the package personally.

I went to get a DL from VDOT, they asked for my height, weight, and address...should have said to piss off...but then I'd have to walk to work.
Oh yeah, I was asked to do a background check before work, should have said heck no...but then I'd be homeless.

But then I wouldn't have a home because I would have laughed at the bank for wanting to do a credit check....seriously people, the things we voluntarily do to get through life are pretty minute. Same with the airport. Just smile, listen, and usually I'm allowed to go on me way.

Have a nice day folks!

Anonymous said...

For everyone that wonders why we have body scanners and why we have to take off our shoes.

1. Google shoe bomber

2. Body scanner are for those that can not clear the metal detector and would prefer a body scanner instead of a pat down.

CliffOnTheRoad said...

The plastic ramp is an excellent solution! Yet, I doubt the WTMD is really weak at the base, plus 3 oz of bomb liquid in gel-shoe inserts would not be found by the WTMD (or the x-ray either; it is non-organic.)

To test the moderators, I would love to see the contents of the "rejected" postings. Someplace. Or just might the censorship be a falsehood, like a bank which has rules up the ying-yang to "protect you" when they mean "them"

As for theft, when an employee found a watch, I really really wonder if she turned it in or might blame the loss on a passenger, since she held onto it until I left the secure area. Suggestion implied herein.

Anonymous said...

A chastity belt? That probably poses as much of a danger to air travel as a bottle of water and a dirty sock.

Anonymous said...

I, too, have recently complaints with the DHS OIG over compliant comments that never saw the light of day, RB.

screen shot

Anonymous said...

With all the crap you hear about the TSA, it's nice to see that they're actually confiscating some dangerous items. I'm still upset about my toothpaste and deodorant being taken.

Anonymous said...

In summary, I may have the solution, go back to pre 9-11 screening procedures, with poorly trained, privately owned security companies. The airlines will hire the security company, at the lowest cost(bidding process), whereas not to effect their "bottom line". You all can now keep your shoes on, jackets, and of course keep all your liquids, regardless of size. Your "rights and freedoms will no longer be affected. Smile as you enter the aircraft, good luck and god speed. You got your wish!

Susan Richart said...

"2. Body scanner are for those that can not clear the metal detector and would prefer a body scanner instead of a pat down."

To the Anonymous person who wrote the above:

Obviously you do not fly often.

Wintermute said...

Anonymous, please cite your source that pre-9/11 private screeners were poorly trained, and, if so, how the TSA screeners are any better trained.

Anonymous said...

To answer your questions: A) Fly often, but fly smart, my wife and I move quickly, most of the time. I was screened both through metal detector and body scanner, without delay. If you fly often, you do not have to be a genius to figure out what is permitted and what is not. B)Read the book Blind Spot and maybe then you will understand how dangerous air travel was in the past. All I know since 9-11 flying has never been safer. I had flown many times, on business, prior to 9-11 and security was a joke! Did you? Folks, I do not mind a little inconvenience to be safe. Stop being so sanctimonious, it is a dangerous world out there.

Anonymous said...

Since RB loves to do this I will attempt the same...

To RB...

Why not include retired military in Pre Check?.

TSA not recognizing retired military shows TSA's distrust for those service members who sacrificed to defend the United States."

As a military brat I have the untmost respect for the military. But they are not exempt from the list of organizations that hire crazies. Let's look at the Fort Hood massacre and the soldier that chucked grenades into other soldiers' tents and shooting those that ran.

I don't think it's a matter of trust. Most folks are honest and decent, the problem is the freaks of society that can easily pass as most folks. Same with the military.

It's not an issue of civil rights people, no one group is being treated unfairly. It's an issue of the right to privacy...which many a constitutionalist would argue does not exist.

Mike Toreno said...

"In summary, I may have the solution, go back to pre 9-11 screening procedures, with poorly trained, privately owned security companies. The airlines will hire the security company, at the lowest cost(bidding process), whereas not to effect their "bottom line". You all can now keep your shoes on, jackets, and of course keep all your liquids, regardless of size. Your "rights and freedoms will no longer be affected. Smile as you enter the aircraft, good luck and god speed. You got your wish!"

That would be great. I don't know if the private screeners would be poorly trained or not, but they would do a better job than the horrible job the TSA clerks do now. Shoes aren't dangerous, jackets aren't dangerous, liquids aren't dangerous. The only changes that your plan would cause is that fewer weapons would get past screening than the 70% that get through now, and that fewer iPads would be stolen.

Susan Richart said...

Another Anonymous person wrote:

"It's not an issue of civil rights people, no one group is being treated unfairly."

Try telling that to those who wear insulin pumps or who are disabled or anyone who can't assume the surrender position in the machines. They get the full enhanced pat down EVERY.TIME.THEY.TRANSIT.A.CHECKPOINT.

Screen shot

Anonymous said...

Anonymous says:
"It's not an issue of civil rights people, no one group is being treated unfairly."

Yup, the TSA treats everyone the same.

Except...

Kids:
"Screening procedures for passengers 12 and under include:
Allowing children 12 and under to leave their shoes on.
Allowing multiple passes through the walk through metal detector and advanced imaging technology to clear any alarms on children."

Old folks:
"Modified screening measures allow passengers 75 and older to:
Leave on shoes and light jackets through security checkpoints.
Undergo an additional pass through Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) to clear any anomalies detected during screening."

TSA Pre-check:
"...they will undergo expedited screening, which could include no longer removing the following items:
Shoes
3-1-1 compliant bag from carry-on
Laptop from bag
Light outerwear/jacket
Belt"

...so, as we can see, everyone is equal, some are just more equal then others.

Wintermute said...

Anonymous said...

"To answer your questions: A) Fly often, but fly smart, my wife and I move quickly, most of the time. I was screened both through metal detector and body scanner, without delay. If you fly often, you do not have to be a genius to figure out what is permitted and what is not. B)Read the book Blind Spot and maybe then you will understand how dangerous air travel was in the past. All I know since 9-11 flying has never been safer. I had flown many times, on business, prior to 9-11 and security was a joke! Did you? Folks, I do not mind a little inconvenience to be safe. Stop being so sanctimonious, it is a dangerous world out there."

Does that book cite sources? And can you site sources that the TSA actually does a better job than pre-9/11 screeners did? Or is that book your sole basis of the statement "All I know since 9-11 flying has never been safer?" And it goes beyond inconvenience and into civil rights territory, which is why many of us are so vocal. And finally, with your somment, who's the one being sanctimonious again?

Anonymous said...

Someone might want to check the "Inert bazooka rocket" again. It looks to me a lot like a rifle grenade and if it is (the tail will be a hollow tube) it isn't inert. Tahe inert rifle grenades had a round nose. The shape of the one in the picture tells me HEAT. HOLd it nose up. The striker is in the base.

Anonymous said...

TSA doesn't get enough credit where due. Great job protecting America and providing us with peace of mind!! There will always be those who choose to complain rather than appreciate.

Anonymous said...

I'm starting to think it might be a good idea to get rid of TSA, but not for reasons you might expect. Once this organization is gone, I wonder how long it will be before we have another 9/11 on our hands. Maybe the general public will then realize the efforts of TSA employees. I agree that there are a lot of immature TSA employees. I travel often, and I have seen a large majority. But like all career choices, you cannot chracterize an entire work force based on a few people. If thats how people choose to view the world, then: all pilots are drunks, and all flight attendants sleep around. Meanwhile, all office workers are lazy, and every police officer is racist. It would make more sense to judge people based on their character, rather than their job. In my experience, I have seen many passengers throw needless fits. While my security experiences are fast and for the most part pleasant. But the passengers that treat the TSA people like dirt, receive the same treatment. It's funny how many people, that don't actually contribute to society, feel like they should complain about somehting they know nothing about.

Anonymous said...

"...so, as we can see, everyone is equal, some are just more equal then others."

You would whine if the TSA didn't give common sense and considerate treatment to them.

"Shoes aren't dangerous, jackets aren't dangerous, liquids aren't dangerous."

You should read more.

Anonymous said...

The useful information, that is not in this article, would be a compilation of the finds on a similar number of screened passengers in the 1990's - before TSA, scanners, shoe bombers, 9/11, etc.

I would suggest that the pre-TSA, pre-DHS numbers are comparable or identical... that is to say, no actual new security has been added, just costs and a creepy illusion of security for voyeuristic civil servants. However, in fairness, I can't say this with certainty, but it sure would be nice if THS would come clean with these kinds of stats going back 20 or 40 years (so it can cover the acme of the plane hijacking years: the 70's).

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"...so, as we can see, everyone is equal, some are just more equal then others."

You would whine if the TSA didn't give common sense and considerate treatment to them.


I "whine' because the TSA doesn't "give common sense and considerate treatment" to anyone.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
If you fly often, you do not have to be a genius to figure out what is permitted and what is not.

Well, the TSA screeners certainly are not geniuses- they can't seem to figure out that video recording is permitted at checkpoints.

They can't seem to figure out that a bottle of water is not a bomb.

They can't seem to figure out that a pair of flip-flops is not a shoe bomb.

Etc.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I agree that there are a lot of immature TSA employees. I travel often, and I have seen a large majority. But like all career choices, you cannot chracterize an entire work force based on a few people. If thats how people choose to view the world, then: all pilots are drunks, and all flight attendants sleep around. Meanwhile, all office workers are lazy, and every police officer is racist.


...and every passenger is a terrorist, who can't be trusted to keep their shoes on or with a bottle of water.

You see,the TSA already treats US like that, so....

Anonymous said...

To January 22, 2013 at 7:04 AM:

I point you to this 1985 article --

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=57UzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=oTIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=4844,6538112

The lowly checkpoints of metal detectors and bag x-rays were finding close to 1,500 guns per half-year.

That's right: twice the amount of 2012, and with probably fewer total passengers.

Oh, but that's right: the pre-TSA screeners were low-paid and inept.

Anonymous said...

I'm always amazed at people complaining about privacy when it comes to safety. I've logged over 2,000,000 miles in air travel. I know by today's standatrds it's not that remarkable but, to me it's a lot of travel. I welcome xray, scanners and anything else that applies to everybody getting on the plane. There is no room for error at 40,000 feet. We should take some lessons from our European friends who've been battling terrorism for 100 years longer than us. Turn security over to the military where it belongs. Travel to or through an international European airport and notice the military patrols through the concourses armed with automatic weapons. I wouldn't care if we were strip searched and made to identify and travel with all of our baggage. I recently changed planes in the busiest airport in the US. I had a long layover and was able to get on an earlier flight. Once airborne I realized my checked bag was not on the same flight as I. This is unsettling. Keep your civil liberties, privacy, and please travel on your own private plane. We need even better security than we have today!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
...you cannot chracterize an entire work force based on a few people.

Ah, the old '1% of cops give them all a bad name' argument.

Unfortunately, it's not true.

You see, if most cops were good, they wouldn't stand for the bad cops to exist among them, would arrest them, testify against them, and get them kicked out and thrown in jail. But this doesn't really happen. When it does happen, it's so unusual they make a movie about it (See 'Serpico' for example).

The same is true of the TSA screeners. There have been many, many, many cases (many mentioned right here on this blog!) where screeners have broken the rules or even the law... only to be 'put under review' or be 'retrained'. Only to have another screener do the same thing next week. It's not merely an issue with one screener here or there- there is a Systemic problem.

It's partly a problem with lack of training- how hard is it to train some one that it is legal and allowed for people to record video of a TSA checkpoint? Evidently VERY hard- there are numerous examples over the years of screeners telling people they can't record video. If the training worked, this would have happened, at most, ONCE, not month after month after month for over a decade.

That is just ONE simple example of something the TSA screeners should know, but evidently do not. Other examples include (but are not limited to):

-making mom pump breast milk in airport bathroom
-strip-searching elderly women
-spilling the cremated ashes of a passengers father
-confiscating a pregnant woman's insulin and ice packs

All these and more can be found by Googling for 'TSA Apologizes'.

So, in the end, you are right- you cannot chracterize an entire work force based on a few people. But the thing is- it's not just a few people- it's the few people who get caught, AND the ones who didn't, AND the ones who let them get away with it by not reporting them, AND the ones who aren't supervising/managing them, AND the ones who made the dumb rules to begin with.

...and that's practically ALL of them.

s said...

To Anonymous at January 22, 2013 at 10:15 AM:

Pray tell, where in Europe do you have to walk through scanners and remove your shoes? No place that I know of.

Screen shot

Herbert Ben Ballard said...

I was wondering the same thing. Was it being used at the time of discovery and male or female device?

Anonymous said...

I'm curious. How often have you found knives disguised as sex toys? I'm sure it's happened more than once. You guys are doing a good job keeping us safe. What happens to the antique guns you find?

Anonymous said...

RB, thea biggest reason for removing shoes is to keep the line moving. Most shoes contain metal. Metal heels. metal zippers. Metal buckles. These all set off the metal detectors and then that person has to double check their pockets, take off their shoes, and walk through again. Can you imagine if every third person had to go through this process? We'd all have to show up at the airport 4 hours before a flight!

Got to stand for something said...

Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.
Benjamin Franklin

That is all I got to say about it.

TSORon said...

Wintermute said...
[[Anonymous, please cite your source that pre-9/11 private screeners were poorly trained, and, if so, how the TSA screeners are any better trained.]]

I don’t know about Anon, but I can point it out for you Wintermute. Start here: (http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm). Go to section 9.1 and 9.2 of the report. Read.

Then go to section 13.5 of the report. Read. That should provide you with the information you request.

Or don’t. It’s easier to ignore the facts if you don’t even know what they are.

David said...

TSA is doing fine job even if they have to do a complete search of any your possessions to keep everyone safe and out of harms way. Great information on this blog.

Wintermute said...

TSORon said...

"I don’t know about Anon, but I can point it out for you Wintermute. Start here: (http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm). Go to section 9.1 and 9.2 of the report. Read.

"Then go to section 13.5 of the report. Read. That should provide you with the information you request."

Or, how about I read the whole thing instead of cherry-picking parts of it ;)

"Or don’t. It’s easier to ignore the facts if you don’t even know what they are."

I asked for sources. You provided them. I will fact-check. The insults are not required, and hurt whatever little credibility you have.

Wintermute said...

TSORon told me to read the 9/11 commission report - specifically sections 9.1, 9.2, and 13.5 - for proof that the pre-9/11 screeners were poorly trained that the TSA is any better. These sections are irrelevant to the discussion, as they do not cover screening. Well... a brief paragraph at the end of 13.5 mentions it, sorta, kinda. But it doesn't speak to how poorly trained pre-9/11 screeners were nor how the TSA is any better. Want to try again?

Wintermute said...

TSORon said...

"Read"

OK. So I did. I want to make sure we are arguing the same point. Granted, I only skimmed the parts TSORon didn't specifically site, but thus far I can find no evidence that this report supports the original argument, which was "pre-9/11 screeners were poorly trained." I asked for evidence of two things. First, sources showing this to be the case. Second, evidence that TSA screeners were doing any better.

Wintermute said...

No response, TSORon? Or were you arguing a different point entirely?

TSORon said...

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm
“We asked a screening expert to review the videotape of the hand-wanding, and he found the quality of the screener's work to have been "marginal at best." The screener should have "resolved" what set off the alarm; and in the case of both Moqed and Hazmi, it was clear that he did not.”
“The hijackers quickly gained control and sprayed Mace, pepper spray, or some other irritant in the first-class cabin, in order to force the passengers and flight attendants toward the rear of the plane. They claimed they had a bomb.”
“The hijackers attacked sometime between 8:42 and 8:46.They used knives (as reported by two passengers and a flight attendant), Mace (reported by one passenger), and the threat of a bomb (reported by the same passenger). They stabbed members of the flight crew (reported by a flight attendant and one passenger). Both pilots had been killed (reported by one flight attendant).The eyewitness accounts came from calls made from the rear of the plane, from passengers originally seated further forward in the cabin, a sign that passengers and perhaps crew had been moved to the back of the aircraft.”

You also might want to read the document at the link below. It is a document presented to the 9/11 Commission by the National Commission On Terrorist Actions which clearly states that Box Cutters and Mace were prohibited items according to FAA regulations active on 9/11/2001, yet were missed by the screeners at the various airports in question.

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/staff_statements/staff_statement_3.pdf

Wintermute said...

TSAgent Ron said...

"http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm"

Hmmm... You said 9.1, 19.2, and 13.5. This is none of those. And what you quoted BARELY addresses screening, and does NOT speak to how TSA is any better at it. We have reports of a 70% failure rate indicating that they are not.

TSORon said...

Wintermute said...

[[TSA is any better at it. We have reports of a 70% failure rate indicating that they are not.]]

A report from 2004, about screening during 2003 and 2002. Just a bit outdated most people would think. TSA stood up as an agency in 2002, and it takes time to not only train people but time for them to gain experience. Either bring data to the discussion that is relevant or admit that what you DO have is no longer relevant.

Wintermute said...

TSORon said...

"A report from 2004, about screening during 2003 and 2002. Just a bit outdated most people would think. TSA stood up as an agency in 2002, and it takes time to not only train people but time for them to gain experience. Either bring data to the discussion that is relevant or admit that what you DO have is no longer relevant."

Nice misinformation there. I've already pointed out why this data, though dated, is still relevant, countless times on this very blog. To whit, we have a November 2011 report which states (paraphrasing) that, while the actual failure rate is SSI, it has changed very little over time. Combining these two data points (at one point in time, the failure rate was 70%, and that failure rate changed very little over time), we can logically conclude that the failure rate is still approximately 70%, at least up to November 2011. If you have a different data point you'd like to share, that would be more than welcome.

Anonymous said...

I'm just tired of the blue gloved finger getting inserted into my....purse?

Anonymous said...

It is amazing that people still do not appreciate TSA. Anytime you reach your destination should be considered a good day! Whether the item was inert or not enough bullets or the size of the bullets or items that could make a bum should make it any less of a threat because some numbnut was testing the system. I considered that once any of these items were discovered in your carryon or checked baggage that you definitely had intent on being stupid and dangerous! Those of you who complain about taking shoes off should be reminded that this procedure is a small inconvenience compared to being on a plane with some numbnut whose intent is to cause great destruction. So think again when you get on a plane that if TSA misses (human error factor) a dangerous item you just might not make it to your destination. Maybe a little Russian policy is what some Americans need in that once they know who you are you may never be seen or found again in this life for doing such a stupid dangerous thing! By the way, I am an American and not a TSA employee but had notice the usual American sanctimonous remarks and arrogant attitudes in a country where you are given the benefit of the doubt for your intent of flying with dangerous items. These people should be immediately executed!!!

Anonymous said...

I fly regularly from the UK to the US. If you think TSA is tough, try procedures at Heathrow in London! Solution to TSA? Simple. When was the last time you heard about an EL AL aircraft hijacking? We should all abide by Israeli/El Al security measures. Endless queues (lines)? Tough!

Anonymous said...

Would you have known it was "inert" if someone pulled it out on your flight?

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Anonymous said...

Annoymous states....."Anonymous said...
What is the big deal about finding these items? Isn't that your job? I don't see the point of announcing all of the guns. If you can't find a gun, what else would you be missing.

I have noticed that almost everything found is discovered by the metal detector and baggage x-ray. The body scanners seem to only find items that aren't a threat to aviation, like toothpaste or bottles of vodka. I don't see the benefit of the scanners when they have many health and privacy issues, along with how expensive they are.

How many of the people who had the prohibited items were charged with terrorism?



To the Idiot who posted this comment and all the others who comment the same way ! ...do you really think that if we weren't personally being x-rayed along with our baggage, that these idiot who try to sneak these dangerous items past security, that they wouldn't then conceal them on thier person!
Next I have to ask ! ...why are all these idiots not arrested , fined and their guns confiscated ?... then slapped upside the head and ask them "why are you that stupid?" ....

Anonymous said...

Why aren't these people (Idiots) who, are trying to sneak these dangerous items past Security, .... being put on a "No Fy List"????

Anonymous said...

I had a pretty humiliating search , in private this summer but I totally appreciated the thoroughness & the agents explained everything before & after they searched. I didn't care for the pat down of my 6 mo old boy a decade ago but if that's the price for safety who cares. Weapons on a plane? How could any of that seem ok? How could they only get a citation? oops! I packed my gun, ammo. and spare bomb parts????