Saturday, September 11, 2010

Moment of Silence for Those Lost on American Airlines Flight 11 and at the World Trade Center

8:46 AM 9/11/2001

Moment of Silence for Those Lost on United Airlines Flight 175 and at the World Trade Center

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

A Moment of Silence for the American People's Rights and Freedoms which have been taken away and/or infringed upon, all in the name of 'Freedom'.

Anonymous said...

Anon, I noticed you still have the freedom to voice your opinion here.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous #1
Shame on you for your small-minded thread crapping.

Anonymous said...

Do We (as in "We the People...") have the Freedom to get on a plane without being seen naked or getting groped?

Just because we still have some Freedoms doesn't mean we haven't lost any.

George said...

I hereby compliment Bob on his taste. A moment of silence is indeed more appropriate than self-congratulatory post about all the great things the TSA has supposedly done.

GSOLTSO said...

George, thank you for the kind words, it is refreshing to see someone that has differing opinions in many cases, take this thread for what it was. +1 to you sir.

West
TSA Blog Team

Anonymous said...

I think I can speak for most people when I say that today is indeed a day to remember,and respectfully reflect on all those who died due to these needless acts of terrorism.
It is also a day to remember and reflect on the fact that if we let terrorists remove all our rights and freedoms then the terrorists have not only killed thousands of innocent people, but they have also deprived millions of people of their basic liberties and freedoms. Please do not allow fear and intimidation to destroy the democratic processes that protect liberty and freedom. The TSA has shown time and time again that it wants to shut down all legitimate debate and reasoned discussion and impose its illegitimate will on a subservient public.
We all want to be safe, but we will all be safer if we talk to each other, not at each other. Sadly I know the TSA does not want, and will not respond to, reasoned debate. It is easier for them to rule by fear than it is to work by open and honest cooperation.

George said...

@Anonymous, September 11, 2010 5:37 PM It is also a day to remember and reflect on the fact that if we let terrorists remove all our rights and freedoms then the terrorists have not only killed thousands of innocent people, but they have also deprived millions of people of their basic liberties and freedoms.

Actually, it isn't the terrorists who are removing our rights and freedoms. It's our own leaders. Similarly, it isn't the terrorists who believe that strip searching or touching genitals is necessary and justified as a routine primary screening measure for all air travelers. It's an agency of our own government.

Unfortunately, too many of us are willing and even eager to give up our "basic liberties and freedoms," in exchange for promises of security based on "That's classified, so trust us." We do that out of fear, which our leaders consider beneficial to encourage, promote, and increase. And we do so out of ignorance, since it's hard to notice the loss of rights and liberties we weren't aware of having.

It would be a tragedy if terrorists succeed in their efforts to defeat us. It would be a far greater tragedy if our own leaders decided that it served their interests to surrender unilaterally after the enemy fired the first shot. But that's what our leaders have done with our "basic liberties and freedoms" when they established the TSA as a secretive and unaccountable agency with a mandate and unlimited authority to nullify those liberties and freedoms whenever they get in the way.

After we have spent our moments of silence for those lost on 9/11, we should spend another moment asking ourselves this important question: Are we truly safer than we were on 9/10/2001? Or are we merely less wealthy and less free?

LTSO with Answers said...

After we have spent our moments of silence for those lost on 9/11, we should spend another moment asking ourselves this important question: Are we truly safer than we were on 9/10/2001? Or are we merely less wealthy and less free?


This day was an ever changing day for nations all over the world. It amazed me that on Saturday 9/11/2010 there was a group traveling together and the woman did not know what TSA was or anything that happened 9 years ago. It is quite amazing that some people are that disconnected with tragedies of such magnitude.

I see the publics opinions about TSA and do see an agreement from time to time. Are we safer? We are safer because TSA procedures and processes are much more than that of the privatized security before 9/11. I see there is more hassle and inconvience to the public and I also see it is neccessary. While we screen a vast majority of innocent people it is to keep everyone safe and the system secure. No one should have to get on an airplane or other public transportation and be harmed in any way.

George said...

@LTSO with Answers: We are safer because TSA procedures and processes are much more than that of the privatized security before 9/11.

I have to assume you inadvertently left a word out of that sentence. Otherwise, you're saying that "more 'procedures and processes' is better." That does seem to be the TSA's operative philosophy, as they continually add reactive hassles to "enhance" security. But I don't think that's what you meant to say.

I think you might have meant something like "more effective." That's actually possible, since security was previously handled at individual airports by the lowest bidding company that paid screeners minimum wage. Federal employees who are intelligent, well-trained, and paid decent wages to follow standardized procedures and processes should be a significant improvement over the previous minimum-wage flunkies. But that doesn't seem to describe the TSA as it currently operates.

Despite the very visible inconsistency (which Bob's department tries to spin into a virtue), the procedures and processes are more standardized than they were before 9/11. But it's still the very same system of mass screening that failed on 9/11. Sure it's been continually patched in reaction to embarrassing breaches, which clearly create ever-increasing and ever more intrusive hassles for passengers. But does that actually mean more effective security? The GAO says it doesn't. The TSA ignores the GAO's recommendations and says "trust us." Who is more credible?

George said...

@LTSO with Answers: I see there is more hassle and inconvience to the public and I also see it is neccessary.

Many of us see the "hassle and inconvenience" as nothing more than security theatre with a script made of arbitrary restrictions implemented inconsistently, mainly to cover bureaucratic hindquarters, and too often including petty tyrants indulging their power to bully and harass. You say it's necessary, but what supposedly justifies it is conveniently classified. So we're just supposed to trust you when you claim it's "necessary" and that it actually does "keep everyone safe and the system secure." Why should we trust you?

No one should have to get on an airplane or other public transportation and be harmed in any way.

Really? Then why do you insist on routinely inflicting on passengers a "pat down" that under any other circumstances would constitute sexual assault? And why do you insist on a procedure for strip search scanning that makes it impossible for passengers to maintain control over their wallets and passports, creating a vulnerability to theft and even identity theft? Since one of both of those measures is now required for anyone to get on an airplane, why do you insist on harming passengers in these ways?

Even if we accept on faith the TSA's claim that their takeover of airport security makes us safer from a 9/11-style hijacking, "safety" and "security" mean more than just protection from terrorists. Terrorist attacks on aviation are devastating to be sure, but they're extremely rare. Theft may not be devastating on a national scale, but it's very common and can be devastating to the victim. Screening procedures that increase our vulnerability to theft and identity theft do not make us safer.

RB said...

LTSO with Answers said...
After we have spent our moments of silence for those lost on 9/11, we should spend another moment asking ourselves this important question: Are we truly safer than we were on 9/10/2001? Or are we merely less wealthy and less free?


This day was an ever changing day for nations all over the world. It amazed me that on Saturday 9/11/2010 there was a group traveling together and the woman did not know what TSA was or anything that happened 9 years ago. It is quite amazing that some people are that disconnected with tragedies of such magnitude.

I see the publics opinions about TSA and do see an agreement from time to time. Are we safer? We are safer because TSA procedures and processes are much more than that of the privatized security before 9/11. I see there is more hassle and inconvience to the public and I also see it is neccessary. While we screen a vast majority of innocent people it is to keep everyone safe and the system secure. No one should have to get on an airplane or other public transportation and be harmed in any way.

September 12, 2010 2:34 PM
.............
Electronic Strip Searches and Enhanced Pat Down Sexual Assaults finishes the job for the terrorist and really don't make us much safer.

Just how many terrorist has TSA identified and have gone to trial with a guilty verdict?

What, what was that answer? None?

Thought so!

Isaac Newton said...

LTSO with "answers" said:
This day was an ever changing day for nations all over the world.
9/11 was, at the time, a day of immense tragedy for the families and friends of the victims, both within the USA and in the other countries where some victims were citizens. This I will not dispute.

However, 9/12 is a day of tragedy for families of people who died in traffic accidents, or of cancer, or drowning, on that day. 3/15 is a day of tragedy for some families. So is 11/7 and 6/2 and any other day on the calendar. Does the family of a child who was killed by a drunk driver on August 7, 2007, mourn any less than the family of a 9/11 victim?

9/11 was a day when the USA had to abandon the notion that "we are special and no one can hurt us"; a day when the USA had to give up its feeling of superiority over other inferior countries where terrorist acts have taken place for decades.

9/11 was the day the USA decided to play the victim card on the world stage. And for a few weeks, a few months, even perhaps a few years, the rest of world felt sympathy. But after 9 years it's time to stop saying "poor me, 9/11", and get on with life.

Since 2001, 9/11 has changed the rest of the world only in that other countries now have to kowtow to American security fears. Canadian airlines: if you want to fly from one Canadian city to another through a bit of US airspace, you'll have to supply all the personal data on your passengers. Foreign airlines departing foreign cities: if you want to fly to the US, you'll have to carry out silly security measures because the US says so. Passengers around the world: leave behind your water bottles and mascara, arrive an extra hour early, and be prepared to shed shoes, get felt up or irradiated, or have your snowglobe confiscated if your country is trying to play along with the US security directives.

LTSO continued:
It amazed me that on Saturday 9/11/2010 there was a group traveling together and the woman did not know what TSA was or anything that happened 9 years ago. It is quite amazing that some people are that disconnected with tragedies of such magnitude.
And so maybe it wasn't as "ever changing" as you think it was.

What are you planning for October 25, LTSO? 595 years ago, the British won an amazing battle at Agincourt on that date, St Crispin's day. 184 years later, Shakespeare put the following words into the mouth of Henry V:
"And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered..."

Every generation thinks their "ever changing" day will be remembered "to the ending of the world". Hastings. Agincourt. Lexington. Gettysburg. Pearl Harbor. How many did you have a "moment of silence" for this year?

TBC...

Isaac Newton said...

LTSO continued:
It amazed me that on Saturday 9/11/2010 there was a group traveling together and the woman did not know what TSA was or anything that happened 9 years ago. It is quite amazing that some people are that disconnected with tragedies of such magnitude.
And so maybe it wasn't as "ever changing" as you think it was.

What are you planning for October 25, LTSO? 595 years ago, the British won an amazing battle at Agincourt on that date, St Crispin's day. 184 years later, Shakespeare put the following words into the mouth of Henry V:
"And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered..."

Every generation thinks their "ever changing" day will be remembered "to the ending of the world". Hastings. Agincourt. Lexington. Gettysburg. Pearl Harbor. How many did you have a "moment of silence" for this year?

LTSO also said:
I see the publics opinions about TSA and do see an agreement from time to time. Are we safer? We are safer because TSA procedures and processes are much more than that of the privatized security before 9/11.
You have more procedures and processes than the private contractors before 9/11, but it does not follow that "more" makes us safer. 9/11 was not a failure of gate security; it was a product of a policy that required cooperation with hijackers. "More" of something that was not inadequate to start with does not make us safer; it just costs more.

LTSO concluded:
I see there is more hassle and inconvience to the public and I also see it is neccessary. While we screen a vast majority of innocent people it is to keep everyone safe and the system secure. No one should have to get on an airplane or other public transportation and be harmed in any way.
Well, at least I can agree with you that there's more hassle and inconvenience. And a lot of people will foolishly equate that with more safety.

And your job is to prevent harm "in any way"? If the aircraft maintenance is faulty, or the pilot is unqualified, is that TSA's responsibility? If someone trips going up the stairs and breaks an arm, is that your responsibility? If I get food poisoning from aircraft meals, is that your problem? You need (and your organization needs) some perspective.

Isaac Newton said...

Part 2

LTSO continued:
It amazed me that on Saturday 9/11/2010 there was a group traveling together and the woman did not know what TSA was or anything that happened 9 years ago. It is quite amazing that some people are that disconnected with tragedies of such magnitude.
And so maybe it wasn't as "ever changing" as you think it was.

What are you planning for October 25, LTSO? 595 years ago, the British won an amazing battle at Agincourt on that date, St Crispin's day. 184 years later, Shakespeare put the following words into the mouth of Henry V:
"And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered..."

Every generation thinks their "ever changing" day will be remembered "to the ending of the world". Hastings. Agincourt. Lexington. Gettysburg. Pearl Harbor. How many did you have a "moment of silence" for this year?

To be continued.

Isaac Newton said...

Part 3

LTSO also said:
I see the publics opinions about TSA and do see an agreement from time to time. Are we safer? We are safer because TSA procedures and processes are much more than that of the privatized security before 9/11.
You have more procedures and processes than the private contractors before 9/11, but it does not follow that "more" makes us safer. 9/11 was not a failure of gate security; it was a product of a policy that required cooperation with hijackers. "More" of something that was not inadequate to start with does not make us safer; it just costs more.

LTSO concluded:
I see there is more hassle and inconvience to the public and I also see it is neccessary. While we screen a vast majority of innocent people it is to keep everyone safe and the system secure. No one should have to get on an airplane or other public transportation and be harmed in any way.
Well, at least I can agree with you that there's more hassle and inconvenience. And a lot of people will foolishly equate that with more safety.

And your job is to prevent harm "in any way"? If the aircraft maintenance is faulty, or the pilot is unqualified, is that TSA's responsibility? If someone trips going up the stairs and breaks an arm, is that your responsibility? If I get food poisoning from aircraft meals, is that your problem? You need (and your organization needs) some perspective.

txrus said...

LTSO with Answers said on September 12, 2010 2:34 PM ...

We are safer because TSA procedures and processes are much more than that of the privatized security before 9/11.
********************************
Would you please elaborate on just one policy or procedure, for which the TSA is 100% responsible, that has made use 'safer' & how that would have prevented the hijackings on 9/11/01 had it been in place on 9/10/01? Just 1 & remember, it can't be anything done by the airlines or FAA so that leaves out reinforcing cockpit doors, banning box cutters, & the airline policy of no longer cooperating w/hijackers.

This question has been asked of many other self-proclaimed TSA'ers, but not one of them has ever been able to answer the question.

If you are going to make the claim that we are 'safer' because of the TSA, then it shouldn't be this difficult to explain how & why to the public that you serve.

Ayn R. Key said...

We must always Remember the Lesson of 9/11/2001.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous, September 11, 2010 5:37 PM It is also a day to remember and reflect on the fact that if we let terrorists remove all our rights and freedoms then the terrorists have not only killed thousands of innocent people, but they have also deprived millions of people of their basic liberties and freedoms.


Really?
I didnt know we had the right to not be screened for WEI's before getting on an airplane. 4 planes were taken over with terrorists using boxcutters. Before that, they have used guns and explosives. You act as though no one as ever used airplanes as a way to strike terror into the hearts and minds of the other 140 passengers on that aircraft. Not to mention those that sit helplessly on the ground or in buildings that can be at risk too.

Its sad that you dont respect those that didnt have a chance to survive this attack 9 years ago. Good thing you wont have to worry about that in this country ever again.

Your Welcome.

Anonymous said...

"This day was an ever changing day for nations all over the world. It amazed me that on Saturday 9/11/2010 there was a group traveling together and the woman did not know what TSA was or anything that happened 9 years ago. It is quite amazing that some people are that disconnected with tragedies of such magnitude.
----------------------------------Worldwide, several hundred thousand people died on 9/11. Cancer, starvation, disease, accident, murder, at home, at war, with loved ones at their side, or among strangers, or alone. Don't be selfish with your grief.

TSO Tom said...

I hear alot of people saying, NEVER FORGET...but do they really know what that means? To me, it means to always keep in my mind how that day unfolded, and the people who did this to us, and the unfortunate and extraordinary loss of life and loss of a piece of our nation that occurred that day. It means always remembering that it can happen again...YES IT CAN...despite the fact that it has not, it CAN happen again. And if we become complacent, if we "forget" like we have in the past, it will happen again! TSA haters, take it elsewhere, don't desecrate the names of those who lost their lives on 9/11/01, don't shame us as a country any further than we already are....if you hate TSA that much, if you value your FREEDOM that much, become part of the solution rather than complaining about the problems all the time.

George said...

It is indeed unfortunate that a classy, appropriately understated tribute to the victims of 9/11 has provoked remarks critical of the TSA. And perhaps, TSO Tom, you have good reason to be upset about that.

But I think most of that is the TSA's own fault. Whatever their intent, the people who run the TSA have created an agency whose visible behavior gives many of us reason to despise and distrust it. The "TSA haters" you decry most likely came to hate the TSA because of their own unfortunate experiences with your colleagues. Indeed, many of us believe that it's the TSA that "desecrate[s] the names of those who lost their lives on 9/11/01" and "shame[s] us as a country any further than we already are...." because it does not hesitate to exploit those victims to justify its un-American unaccountability and contempt for basic liberties and the rule of law.

Yes, 9/11 can happen again. Unfortunately, there's no reason to believe that the TSA's security theatre can do anything to prevent it. I am far more inclined to believe the GAO, which consistently casts doubt on the effectiveness of the TSA, than TSA officials who insist that we ignore all the doubtful findings and just trust you.

Could you please explain how you believe we might "become part of the solution rather than complaining about the problems all the time"? Many of the "complaints" here are valid concerns and even constructive suggestions for improvement. But they're either ignored, dismissed, or spun away by Bob and other TSA representatives. It seems your bosses just aren't interested in anything that doesn't come from classified sources at Headquarters. Which is another reason to hate the TSA.

Unless "become part of the solution" means we should just have blind faith in the TSA, and at checkpoints be good docile little sheep who express proper appreciation for the thoroughness and professionalism of the "pat down" they just received. Is that how you propose to honor the 9/11 victims?

Ingraham26 said...

I feel safer knowing TSA is there everyday looking for the unknown threat.
I wonder, if we all had the choice of flying on a plane that had no TSA screening, would you take that flight? Would you let your family, friends or loved ones take such a flight knowing the risk and possibility of danger. I know I would not take that risk and I am very positive that plane would be very empty.

Thank you TSA. Thank you for your hard work.

Anonymous said...

I don't believe the TSA's grandstanding as heroes on 9/11. Heores don't boast - the true heroes of 9/11 are the passengers of flight 93, the firefighters and police officers of D.C. and NY who responded, even though theywere off duty.

TSA claims they are keeping us safe - sorry before 9/11 I didn't have to worry about being sexually molested by an airport screener, have nude pictures taked as a condition to fly or have things stolen out of my luggage.

Anonymous said...

It is indeed unfortunate that a classy, appropriately understated tribute to the victims of 9/11 has provoked remarks critical of the TSA.
---------------------------------------
George--
While I tend to agree with the rest of your remarks, did you really find this to a "classy, appropriately understated tribute"?

There was really no reason to announce a "moment of silence" with four separate blog posts, each accompanied by an unbelievably shlocky graphic. And is no one else somewhat confused by what a "moment of silence" means in the context of an already noiseless blog?

Anonymous said...

TSO Tom said...
I hear alot of people saying, NEVER FORGET...but do they really know what that means? To me, it means to always keep in my mind how that day unfolded, and the people who did this to us, and the unfortunate and extraordinary loss of life and loss of a piece of our nation that occurred that day. It means always remembering that it can happen again...YES IT CAN...despite the fact that it has not, it CAN happen again. And if we become complacent, if we "forget" like we have in the past, it will happen again! TSA haters, take it elsewhere, don't desecrate the names of those who lost their lives on 9/11/01, don't shame us as a country any further than we already are....if you hate TSA that much, if you value your FREEDOM that much, become part of the solution rather than complaining about the problems all the time.
----------------------------------------
Ah, the superior wisdom of those who can barely string a sentence together...

Anonymous said...

TSO Tom said...
....if you hate TSA that much, if you value your FREEDOM that much, become part of the solution rather than complaining about the problems all the time.


The first step toward fixing something is identifying what's wrong with it. We 'haters' are doing just that- pointing out the problems. As a member of the TSA, it's (partly) your job to fix those problems.

Instead, y'all just refer to the Tip-Top-Secret SOP, or ignore the problems altogether.

TSO Tom said...

George, I understand where many passengers are coming from, and many of the posters on this blog as well....that aside, this thread was not intended for that purpose....those negative comments should be posted in the off topic section, not here. Look, I have my own issues with my employer, as I'm sure many of you do as well, but I choose not to air those issues in a subject as sensitive as this one. I came to TSA thinking I could make a difference, and every day I report to work with that same feeling...this just isn't the topic to be posting gripes on.

TSO Tom said...

George said....
Unless "become part of the solution" means we should just have blind faith in the TSA, and at checkpoints be good docile little sheep who express proper appreciation for the thoroughness and professionalism of the "pat down" they just received. Is that how you propose to honor the 9/11 victims?
***********************************
George, some things will never change...in 5 1/2 years with TSA I've learned that. But I have made suggestions that have been implemented in my work place, and I've made suggestions that have been shot down by management. They're not always going to listen, they don't always listen to their own employees either. But complaining in a tone that is harsh and ignorant gets even less response from them, because the people who do that are seen as "trouble makers" and are ignored completely. Mind you now, I'm talking about my workplace, not this forum. But it relates to this forum because I have seen much more respectful answers to folks like yourself then I have to people who come in and "spew at the keyboard" with no purposeful meaning to what they write. Part of the solution: Pick up the phone, contact your congress persons, your senators, your elected officials and tell them of your experiences at the checkpoints, let them know what you think of the WBI machines, and how you feel the procedures affect you as a fare paying passenger and a tax paying citizen of these United State....part of the solution, not part of the problem. The only way to make upper management listen is through the elected officials.

George said...

@Anonymous, September 14, 2010 3:30 PM: While I tend to agree with the rest of your remarks, did you really find this to a "classy, appropriately understated tribute"?

Based on what has been posted here on previous 9/11 anniversaries, I had expected a self-congratulatory post extolling all the great things the TSA has done to make aviation safe since 9/11. Compared to that, what he did post was indeed classy and appropriately understated. Perhaps a bit overdone, as you noted, but still commendably classy.

I'm not sure what "a moment of silence" means either. Maybe he wanted us to refrain from the normal criticism of the TSA in honor of the victims? But then he would have closed comments for the posts. Since he didn't do that, it's open to comments from people who don't accept the presumed implication that 9/11 belongs exclusively to the TSA and those who support it.

There are different ways to honor the 9/11 victims, most of which are equally valid. One way is to praise the TSA for enhancing airport security that 9/11 showed to be inadequate. (I do think the TSA is an improvement over the minimum-wage flunkies to whom it had previously been entrusted. That doesn't make it good, not by any means, but it is an improvement.) Another way is to exercise what rights we still have to criticize what we consider wrong, wasteful, or abusive, since sacrificing ever more liberty and privacy for "trust us" security is not what this country is about.

RB said...

Anonymous said...
It is indeed unfortunate that a classy, appropriately understated tribute to the victims of 9/11 has provoked remarks critical of the TSA.
---------------------------------------
George--
While I tend to agree with the rest of your remarks, did you really find this to a "classy, appropriately understated tribute"?

There was really no reason to announce a "moment of silence" with four separate blog posts, each accompanied by an unbelievably shlocky graphic. And is no one else somewhat confused by what a "moment of silence" means in the context of an already noiseless blog?

September 14, 2010 3:30 PM
..............

Not defending TSA but I suggest you take a look at the four time stamps of the 9/11 posts.

GSOLTSO said...

We seem to have strayed from the topic of this thread, please remain on topic folks. Thank you for your cooperation and commentary.

West
TSA Blog Team

Anonymous said...

Never forget the failures that caused 9/11. Never forgive the failures who took advantage of it, either.