Friday, January 15, 2010

There Are No Children on the No Fly or Selectee Lists

It’s inevitable that every several months or so, some cute kid gets their mug posted on a major news publication with a headline reading something like: “Does this look like a terrorist to you?” Anything involving kids or cats gets tons of mileage and everybody starts tweeting and retweeting that there’s an 8 year old on the no fly list.

There are no children on the No Fly or Selectee lists.

What happens is the child’s name is a match or similar match to an actual individual on the No Fly or Selectee Watch List.

From TSA.gov: Airlines can and should automatically de-select any 8-year-olds out there that appear to be on a watch list. Whether you're eight or 80, the most common occurrence is name confusion and individuals are told they are on the no fly list when in fact, they are not. If you get a boarding pass, you’re not on the no fly list.

The no fly list is reserved for individuals that pose a known threat to aviation. The list is an important tool in our multi-layered approach to aviation security and is used daily to keep individuals that pose a threat to aviation off airplanes.

For more information on the list and to learn about the redress process for individuals that believe they may be on a watch list erroneously, click here.

Secure Flight will fix most of these problems in the future. Secure Flight matches passenger information provided by the airlines with data contained in government-maintained watch list records and verifies any potential matches.

Airlines are beginning to ask for name, date of birth, and gender as it appears on the government ID you plan to use when traveling. This is a part of the Secure Flight program requirements. The program will be in full effect for domestic airlines by mid-year and the rest of the airlines are scheduled to be on board by the end of 2010. Initial estimates indicate that under Secure Flight, in excess of 99 percent of passengers who provided the additional data elements will be able to use Internet check-in, kiosks and experience no delays in obtaining their boarding passes.

In the short term, individuals who have been misidentified as a match or possible match for a Watch List can work through the DHS Redress process to resolve the issue.

Secure Flight Related Posts on the TSA Blog

***Update 1/19/2010 - 4:45 PM***

First and foremost, I want to clarify that my post wasn’t directed at this or any family who have been inconvenienced in situations such as this, but more at the perpetual reporting that there are children on the No Fly list. As a father of two young children, I sympathize with any parent’s frustration at being told their child is on a terrorist watch list, and empathize with any parent going through that situation. It’s terrible.

We’ve said it before, there are no 8 year olds – or other children – on the No Fly or Selectee lists. We may not own the lists (the Terrorist Screening Center does), but we know that kids aren’t on them for sure. The ticketing agent, sky cap or other airline employees at the airport do not know who is on or not on a watch list, and they have no business telling a parent that their kid is on one because it’s simply not true. Airlines can and should automatically de-select any child that appears to be on a watch list when they see them at the check-in counter. You can also check this out for other debunked myths about watch lists.

Anyone who can’t print a boarding pass from home or at a kiosk because they are currently misidentified with someone who is actually on the list should apply for redress to fix the problem. And as I’ve said before, TSA is working to implement the Secure Flight program, which brings watch list matching back to TSA from the airlines. When people provide their date of birth and gender when booking their flight under Secure Flight, it will eliminate about 99% of misidentifications once its fully implemented.

For anybody who is new to the TSA Blog, please know that I’m a blogger and not an official TSA media spokesperson.

The way I write and address issues is different than a spokesperson would address issues with traditional media, and I certainly didn’t mean to belittle the experience of any families who have been through this.

Sincerely,

Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team

267 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 267 of 267
HappyToHelp said...

Sandra said…
“A tacit admission that TSA can't do security right at the checkpoints so they have to keep on trying beyond said checkpoints.”

LOL… your joking right?

The passage says “We have also taken steps to ensure the security boarding areas after you pass through our security checkpoints.”

It’s my opinion the passage should read “We have also taken steps to ensure the security of boarding areas after you pass through our security checkpoints.”

There is no such thing as a security boarding area. If there was, it would be located before the security checkpoint so you can board your security. However, there are boarding areas located at the airport.

Thank you,

Tim
TSA Blog Team

TSOWilliamReed said...

RB said...

William, I never said I don't want to be stopped, searched or talked to. Not my words at all.

I do object to having to guess what rules are in effect at any given airport on any given day since TSA refuses to require its employees to act responsibly.

And yes I do want a set of rules. They can be in paper, on the net or any other way TSA wants to publish them.

Your reference the TSA web site. That is one of the biggest messes ever devised. Information scattered from on area to the other. Information that is wrong.
Information that simple does not state what you guys are telling us the rules allow for.

I will keep asking for a complete set of rules since we are still in a (supposedly) free country where compliance with law requires knowing what the law is.

Perhaps TSA opposes freedom.

----------------

Ok so what you are asking for is a detailed list of the different rules at each airport. From what I am understanding you want a website or book that says things like in new york shoes on belt in fresno shoes in bin? I will admit the TSA.gov website is easy to get lost in but imagine what a website like the one your asking for would be like. Either way there aren't enough differences between airports to make an actual book out of. In fact the shoes thing is about the only difference I can think of that people have a problem with. Everywhere else is 3-1-1, laptops out, shoes off, and no metal in the pockets.

Ayn R. Key said...

Bob, I don't know what Tom said, but after your response to the Hicks family I am sure it was appropriate. That has to be the rudest and most condescending thing you've written here, and it has lots of competition compared to your other writings.

So us poor ignorant idiot masses aren't eagerly lapping up your rationalizations and excuses, and it's all our fault.

Get this Bob, we've broken your code. We know what you mean when you say "there are no children on the list". I've written it several times on this comment section - your statement is true because the list only contains names, not people.

We've broken your code and know exactly what you are saying. You are also saying that it is not your fault if your rules make no sense. It's the fault of those bound by your rules if the rules make no sense. If it weren't for us troublemakers who question your rules everything would be find and dandy.

No, Bob. You're wrong.

Anonymous said...

new subject...

care to comment?

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/20100121_Daniel_Rubin__It_was_no_joke_at_security_gate.html

Rosemary Blair said...

Something to thing about for the blog..

If you would or could set up a vote as for example..
How many people agree that Children should be screened etc.
A simple click of the Yes or No may give you an Idea of how people do agree or disagree.
Just my thoughts.
I think by doing this will aliminate some of the type fights.
Often I'm seeing people who are getting off topic.

Thanks.

HappyToHelp said...

Thanks for backing up my post Ranger11 and TSOWilliamReed.

Tim
TSA Blog Team

Jim Huggins said...

TSO William Reed ... you're missing the point.

You wrote:

Yes he can create a boarding pass with a fancy new name on it. However he also has to create a valid un tampered with identification with his fancy new boarding passes name on it.

Nope.

He can create a fake boarding pass with his own name, which matches his perfectly legitimate ID --- even though he's on the no-fly list. The TDC will see a perfectly legitimate ID and an authentic-looking boarding pass and admit him to the sterile area.

Once inside the sterile area, he can present any other boarding pass he wants --- like, say, one he bought under a fake name that isn't on the no-fly list --- and use that boarding pass to board the aircraft. Voila: TSA document checking circumvented.

Anonymous said...

What in the HECK is going on over there in TSA-land?

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/20100121_Daniel_Rubin__It_was_no_joke_at_security_gate.html

Why isn't the supervisor fired for this? Where are the congressional hearings on this behavior?

Anonymous said...

So now a TSO tries to play a "joke" on an unsuspecting passenger.

Do you still think it is impossible that one of these "jokesters" to take a camera or camera phone into the room with the computer for the nude-o-scan?

I can't trust you guys.

Ernie said...

Remember now folks: nobody in the TSA planted white powder on an innocent passenger. Somebody with the same identity as somebody who worked for the tsa planted white powder on a 'potential terrorist'.

Anonymous said...

I trust that this blog entry shall remain posted forever so that business and government classes may point to this a classic example of what NOT to do with a PR problem.

MarkVII said...

"Our best recommendation for anybody in this situation is to use the Redress process. "

In other words, the pain and consequences of the TSA's ineptitude fall upon the shoulders of the citizen, even if it's obvious that the selectee (a child) is not on the "list".

Mark
qui custodiet ipsos custodes

Anonymous said...

So, Bob, what did it feel like when you sold your soul?

Al Ames said...

No William, he's saying that there shouldn't be different rules at every airport. We can't know the rules because the TSA can change them on a whim, claim SSI and then get mad at us for not knowing and/or trying to comply with them.

The consistent inconsistency policy was Kip's admission that he was incapable of reigning in the screeners and solving the lack of accountability and poor training. Instead, it was easier to call it that let the public deal with it.

We want consistent rules. Even with the IRS, I know what taxes I'm responsible for and can even plan the year ahead so I'm not surprised at tax time. I could get in to restricted federal buildings with my creds or as a visitor and know exactly what was expected of me in both instances. If I go on to military bases, I can find the same procedures to gain entrance.

It's only the TSA that thinks it's special and can do what it wants. It's not a sign of security or professionalism, it's a sign of incompetence.

Reign in our FSDs and staff, TSA.

Al

NoClu said...

TSO Will He Read said...
Once again common sense will prevail! If you are going to hide something in a pair of shoes it will more than likely be the pair of shoes on your feet. If you were going to hide something in your luggage you probably wouldn't bother hiding it in a pair of shoes since there are 1000's of other interesting things to hide stuff in. Then at the same time who ever said TSA doesn't call bag checks because officers can't see whats in the shoes in your bag.

Hmm. I think I read a Tom Clancy novel that had a stupid terrorist in it. He only thought to hide explosives in the shoes he wore. His partner was a bit smarter. He hid explosives in the shoes in his hand luggage. It was a Smashing Success! They didn't even have to resort to the plan devised by the mastermind who used unscreened cargo to smuggle a "thing that goes boom".

Anonymous said...

TSOWilliamReed, keep dragging your heals in. Keep chanting the party response a la Scott McClellan. But...

Since I can print my pass, I can get anyone past your checkpoints.

Without faking an id.

RB said...

TSOWilliamReed said...
RB said...

William, I never said I don't want to be stopped, searched or talked to. Not my words at all.

I do object to having to guess what rules are in effect at any given airport on any given day since TSA refuses to require its employees to act responsibly.

And yes I do want a set of rules. They can be in paper, on the net or any other way TSA wants to publish them.

Your reference the TSA web site. That is one of the biggest messes ever devised. Information scattered from on area to the other. Information that is wrong.
Information that simple does not state what you guys are telling us the rules allow for.

I will keep asking for a complete set of rules since we are still in a (supposedly) free country where compliance with law requires knowing what the law is.

Perhaps TSA opposes freedom.

----------------

Ok so what you are asking for is a detailed list of the different rules at each airport. From what I am understanding you want a website or book that says things like in new york shoes on belt in fresno shoes in bin? I will admit the TSA.gov website is easy to get lost in but imagine what a website like the one your asking for would be like. Either way there aren't enough differences between airports to make an actual book out of. In fact the shoes thing is about the only difference I can think of that people have a problem with. Everywhere else is 3-1-1, laptops out, shoes off, and no metal in the pockets.

January 21, 2010 5:24 PM
..........................

Tim, the rules TSA uses should be the same at airport a, airport b, and airport c.

This is a federal agency and the policies are national in scope.

Which brings up a major failing of TSA.

Some airports do, some airports don't, your experience may be different.

Bob Hanssen said...

William Reed said:

"Yes he can create a boarding pass with a fancy new name on it. However he also has to create a valid un tampered with identification with his fancy new boarding passes name on it. The TDC checks all ID's for tampering and falsification. Even then if he gets past that he still has 100 other hurdles to jump before getting on that plane. Hence LAYERED security."

Wake up, William. Creating a decent fake ID isn't all that hard. All it has to do is to work once for about 30 seconds.

You don't even need to create a fake ID. It's a lot easier just to bribe a low-wage airport worker, including a TSA screener, to let you in the back door.

How much counterintelligence training to you have?

Ronnie said...

LOL Welcome to the club Bob. Looks like Mr. Anon wants your job now too.

Ronnie TSO DEN

Snadra said...

No, Tim, I was NOT joking. TSA is now harassing passengers all through the "sterile" areas of airports. I say again that these actions are tacit admissions that TSA is concerned that they can't get security right at the checkpoint so they have to keep up the harassment.

I know very well how the statement should have been written.

RE: your last paragraph in your response:

Unbelievable that you would write something so inane.

Anonymous said...

What a ridiculous semantical argument being made here. If your name is on the no fly list and you are stopped from flying because of it then how can anyone say that you are NOT ON THE NO FLY LIST? What does "being on the no fly list" mean then? Anything? This blog appears to be nothing but a shameful attempt to defend actions that are indefensible. There's simply is no good reason for thinking that a little 8-year-old kid is a terrorist trying to hijack or blow up a plane.

GSOLTSO said...

Anon sez - "Well, next time they fly, give them the "Rep. Jason Chaffetz" or "Michael Yon" treatment?"

Michael Yons experience was with Customs, not TSA.

West
TSA Blog Team

GSOLTSO said...

Tjonesy sez - "I cant believe that this is a government website where some anonymous blogger can defend the TSA.
The TSA is nothing more than a bunch of Paul Blarts moved to the airport.
If there are no kids on the no fly list then why does Mikey keep getting patted down?"

Keep in mind that Paul Blart saved the day and got the girl in the end. What was your point? There are no children on the watch lists or no fly lists. There may be a name that matches, but the person actually on the list is there for a identifiable reason. The people that are not correct matches have the redress program mentioned here. I hope with the renewed surge of information being published on it now, there will be more focus on this program. I do not have any stats on the redress program, but I believe that it operates the way it should, and there will always be mistakes made. I wish Mikey and his family the best, I hope he doesn't have any other problems with flying. I wish ALL of the kids that find themsleves in this situation, get the correct process applied (deselection at the checkin and proper redress procedures), and get their information squared away for future travel.

West
TSA Blog team

GSOLTSO said...

Anon sez - "How about this: Train TSA employees that there are no kids on the terrorism watch list, that they should not, under ANY circumstances frisk or question or interrogate children, and then these complaints will stop.

My 78 year old dad has a name similar to terrorist's name. He gets hassled too. That makes sense because he's an adult and adults are on the list. Kids by your admission aren't on the list, so your employees should say, "Oh look, here's a kid with the same name as a bad guy" and let him through without another thought or word.

To do otherwise is to make the entire TSA look stupid."

Screening children is common sense, screening all passengers is common sense. There are reports of terror groups using children, the inform and mentally challenged people to do damage to infrastructure and people quite often now. Simple reason for that is exactly what you are suggesting, they receive less scrutiny than adults 16-60. It is simply a way of probing the norms, finding a seam and exploiting it (classic military tactics since recorded word). Children should be screened just like all other passengers, and if a situation arises where a child needs additional screening (because of alarms, etc) it should be done as kindly as possible, but it should be done. The airlines are supposed to automatically deselect children that are watch list matches (because there are NO CHILDREN on the lists).

I agree that some common sense should be used in situations like young Mikey's.


West
TSA Blog Team

Anonymous said...

"Once again common sense will prevail! If you are going to hide something in a pair of shoes it will more than likely be the pair of shoes on your feet. If you were going to hide something in your luggage you probably wouldn't bother hiding it in a pair of shoes since there are 1000's of other interesting things to hide stuff in."

COMMON SENSE would hold that since no one in the world, regardless of whether or how their shoes were screened before getting on a plane, has tried to use shoes as a delivery device for explosives, there is absolutely no need to make every passenger remove their shoes. TSA left common sense behind long ago, Mr. Reed.

Phil said...

TSOWilliamReed, I can't speak for anyone else, but what I want is for TSA to publish a list of all the rules and regulations that TSA will subject someone to if that person wishes to cross a U.S. Government checkpoint at an airport en route to the gate from which his domestic flight will depart, not including laws that the person is required to abide by outside of the airport checkpoint (i.e., just those rules and regulations that apply only at the checkpoint). Note that I'm not asking for tips for travelers, suggestions on how to pack our bags, hints, clues, guidelines, or press releases. I'm not asking to see TSA's super-secret procedures (those that thousands of lowest-level-of-TSA airport security guards who turn over at a rate of somewhere around 25% per year, are allowed to see), not a pointer to the entire TSA "guidelines for travelers" page, the entire TSA Web site (filled, as noted here and acknowledged by EoS staff with inconsistencies and inaccuracies), the entire U.S. Government Web, or the whole Internet -- just a list of the rules TSA imposes on travelers at a U.S. Government airport checkpoint.

When I'm minding my own business and am stopped by government agents, I need to know what my responsibilities are. Can't you understand this? In this nation we are not supposed to be stopped by our government and subjected to arbitrary rules. You can consider it a request for information about how to get past your checkpoint if you like. Isn't that what you want? Don't you want for us to remain in compliance with TSA rules and regulations? Don't you want us to not bring dangerous items past your checkpoints? Don't you want us to do what is needed for you to confirm that we are not carrying such items?

Please, just tell us exactly what is required of us and leave us alone unless we violate those rules.

--
Phil
Arrested at ABQ TSA checkpoint November 15, 2009. Google it.

Mr. Gel-pack said...

Mikey's Mom should try this:

Print out two copies of Mikey's dad's boarding pass and use one copy to walk Mikey through the checkpoint. Don't show the tainted BP to the TSA, save it for the GA. Mikey's dad should go through the TDC separately.

Heck, he could probably get by with a "Najlah" if he was differently-skinned.

Which of the carefully designed "layers of security"(TM) is would stop Mikey from doing this?

HappyToHelp said...

Snadra said… (?Sandra?)
“No, Tim, I was NOT joking. TSA is now harassing passengers all through the "sterile" areas of airports.”

LOL… the post was meant to be inane (thought that was clear). I tried to mirror your response to see if I could get some humor out of you. Did I at least get a smile?

I get it. You don’t like gate screening.

Tim
TSA Blog Team

Ranger11 said...

Thanks for backing up my post Ranger11 and TSOWilliamReed.

Tim
TSA Blog Team

January 21, 2010

You are welcome. I just want the facts to be clear.

I do have to agree in part about the clarity of the TSA website and what is stated in regard to ice being allowed through the checkpoint. It is hardly clear as to how ice can be taken through and under what circumstances. Is there anything that you can do from your end to help clear that up?

HappyToHelp said...

Ayn R. Key said...
“I've written it several times on this comment section - your statement is true because the list only contains names, not people.”

Not true. There are people on the selectee and no fly list. The list has many data points. If you want a glance into some of those data points just check out the Redress paperwork.

The breakdown in the system comes from the Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System (CAPPS) that was implemented back in the 90’s. The data point your airline sends is a name to the system. This really sucks if you have a name similar to a person who is really on the watch list.

Luckily, back in 2004, the ACLU sued TSA and the FBI about watch list mismatching. The ACLU settled out of court and now we have the redress system. While the redress system worked great for some people, the redress system is not the solution to the problem of watch list mismatching.

TSA was trying to get a better system out called CAPPS II back in 2003. The GAO gave CAPPS II a bad rating for privacy back in 2004 and had many privacy advocates up in arms (for good reasons I believe). The system never left test phase and was never implemented (as far as I know). Since then, TSA has been working hard on a new system called Secured Flight that will replace the Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System. Secured Flight is suppose to eliminate 99% of mismatching and has been years in the making. Currently, it is being rolled out and is the real solution to the problem.

This is not a response or comment about the blog post. This is just a reply to Ayn R. Key.

Tim
TSA Blog Team

Sandra said...

No, Tim, it did not make me smile. You're funny like that screener in PHL thought he was being funny.

Anonymous said...

"I get it. You don’t like gate screening."

Why would anyone like being groped and searched a second time by people too inept to get it right the first time around?

HappyToHelp said...

Ranger11 said...
“You are welcome. I just want the facts to be clear.

I do have to agree in part about the clarity of the TSA website and what is stated in regard to ice being allowed through the checkpoint. It is hardly clear as to how ice can be taken through and under what circumstances. Is there anything that you can do from your end to help clear that up?”

I agree as well. I am currently typing up a proposal to change the website. I will be sending it out to three places: Website Feedback form, TSA Employees Only form, and my National Advisory member. I expect to be finished this weekend and I will send out my proposal on Monday (25th). I wish it was as easy as saying “you guys need to make the ice rule more clear for the flying public” but instead I need to write a clear explanation of the problem, how it hurts my job, how it hurts the flying public, and a clear solution.

If all else fails, I will try the Idea Factory. I can’t make any promises that the website will be changed but I will keep you and RB updated.

Tim
TSA Blog Team

Anonymous said...

"Yes he can create a boarding pass with a fancy new name on it. However he also has to create a valid un tampered with identification with his fancy new boarding passes name on it. The TDC checks all ID's for tampering and falsification. Even then if he gets past that he still has 100 other hurdles to jump before getting on that plane. Hence LAYERED security."

No need to fake the ID itself. Use a REAL ID + fake boarding pass to pass security, and then a REAL boarding pass (with fake name used to bypass 'secure flight') + NO ID to board the plane (since identification is no longer checked at the boarding gates except for the 1% of the time TSA is doing random screening there).

Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many people have legally changed their names and obtained new ID solely on the basis that they're on a TSA watch list?

Anonymous said...

"There may be a name that matches, but the person actually on the list is there for a identifiable reason."

___________________

For what feels like the eight millionth time: There are no people on the list; there are only names. If a person arrives at an airport with a name that leads them to be flagged every single time, then they are "on the list." Why is this so easy for virtually every commenter to understand and so difficult for TSA employees to understand?

Ayn R. Key said...

Tim, for your response to be a true defense of Bob's equivocation, then somewhere in some office is a physical list of names, and physically sitting on that list are some actual physical people. That's how there are people on the list.

We know when you're trying to snow us.

Anonymous said...

the TSA is an governmental entity who, like others before it, has seen it's head grow in size as it's actual intelligence decreases. It's amazing that they can tap an eight-old-year for having the exact same name as someone on the "List", but they can't use a little common sense. Haven't you TSA bozos heard of things like fingerprints, birth certificates or pictures? IF you had been smart and had taken a photo of every person with that boy's name, you'd know that HE'S no terrorist. You TSA jerks are too much! Another example of our government acting stupidly.

Anonymous said...

So Bob, a person applies for a redress. How long does that process take?

RB said...

Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many people have legally changed their names and obtained new ID solely on the basis that they're on a TSA watch list?

January 22, 2010 7:27 PM

.............
Face it, some states issue Drivers Licenses to people who are in this country illegally.

If an undocumented person can get a Drivers License then using that DL as some kind of ID for the purpose of clearing TSA Security just makes it a joke.

If anything TSA should reject DL's from states that issue to illegals.

In the end ID does not matter, being screened properly is all that is needed.

HappyToHelp said...

Ayn R. Key said...
“Tim, for your response to be a true defense of Bob's equivocation, then somewhere in some office is a physical list of names, and physically sitting on that list are some actual physical people. That's how there are people on the list.

We know when you're trying to snow us.”

LOL… You really think that physical people need to be sitting on a piece of paper in order for people to be on a list? I would hate to see how you make a shopping list. It sounds like it would be very cumbersome. Nowhere in Bob’s post did I see him imply that people were physically sitting on a list in some office. Bob used clear and proper English and explained it well for people who are not familiar on how CAPPS and Secure Flight work.

I’m not going to play your games any more. Good day to you sir.

Tim
TSA Blog Team

HappyToHelp said...

Anonymous said...
“So Bob, a person applies for a redress. How long does that process take?”

This was the best I could find on the DHS TRIP page.
“What Happens After Your Inquiry Is Submitted?
After filing online, you will be asked to provide supporting documentation within 30 days. We encourage you to submit your additional documentation well before the 30-day deadline to speed processing your request.

Once your documentation is received, DHS TRIP will process your request completely and accurately. It's your responsibility to provide required supporting paperwork for the appropriate forms. Delays in receiving required documentation will cause delays in processing.”



Tim
TSA Blog Team

Anonymous said...

For anybody who is new to the TSA Blog, please know that I’m a blogger and not an official TSA media spokesperson.

Care to elaborate what the difference is between those two? You wear the uniform and get quoted.

Anonymous said...

Once inside the sterile area, he can present any other boarding pass he wants --- like, say, one he bought under a fake name that isn't on the no-fly list --- and use that boarding pass to board the aircraft. Voila: TSA document checking circumvented.

January 21, 2010 6:07 PM

i have a solution to that!

Place a TDC officer by the ticket agent and once the individual offers a ligitamate boarding pass to the CSA (customer service agent), have the TDC check the boarding pass and ID to that passenger. If it clears, its good. That way, the boarding pass they present to the airlines will be valid, and the TDC officer will knwo if they are presenting a fake ID. It wont matter if they get through the first layer, because they will not have any WEI entering the sterile area.

Anonymous said...

"It wont matter if they get through the first layer, because they will not have any WEI entering the sterile area."

If they don't have WEI, why is TSA obsessed with checking their ID? You would make boarding flights an even longer process for absolutely no increase in security. Why is that?

Bob said...

Obviously, I understand that I'm a spokesperson for the TSA on the TSA blog. In fact, I sometimes refer to myself as a digital spokesperson.

When I said that I wasn't an official "media" spokesperson, I simply meant that the way I write on the blog can be a bit snarky at times unlike anything you would hear or read from a Public Affairs Officer. That's it.

Thanks,

Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team

Anonymous said...

LOL… You really think that physical people need to be sitting on a piece of paper in order for people to be on a list? I would hate to see how you make a shopping list. It sounds like it would be very cumbersome. Nowhere in Bob’s post did I see him imply that people were physically sitting on a list in some office. Bob used clear and proper English and explained it well for people who are not familiar on how CAPPS and Secure Flight work.

I’m not going to play your games any more. Good day to you sir.

Tim
TSA Blog Team
-----------------------------

I was going to make one more attempt to explain the absurdity of your reasoning, but now that I think of it it is clear that you are so incredibly dense that you will never understand it. If your name matches the name of a person on the list, then YOU ARE ON THE LIST!!!!!! What is so hard to understand about that?

Anonymous said...

Bob, it looks like another kid (this time with autism) got the name match and the resulting treatment from TSA. Any comments?

Tomas said...

Let's put it this way, there may not be any children on the blacklists, but their names certainly are.

Bob, why are we still seeing the same "Duh, there's an SSSS on this child's boarding pass, guess I'll have to terrorize him" actions from the allegedly well trained, dedicated TSOs instead of seeing nothing but "SSSS on a childs bording pass - must be an ID error" responses?

Why are we still TALKING about this, years later, instead of getting the expected fix from the TSA in simply telling their Transport Sicherheit Offiziere that if a child under a certain age has an SSSS on their boarding pass, it is there in error?

Don't tell ME there are no children on the lists - tell your TSOs. They are obviously the ones who don't know that.

Tom

Ayn R. Key said...

Well, Tim, since the names of children ARE on the list, but there are no children on the list, then yes, my "game" of describing people sitting on a sheet of paper is more honest than anything you've ever written

Anonymous said...

It seems another 8-year-old is in fact on the list. He was held for an hour before he was cleared, despite the fact he is autistic. Just a regular day for the TSA?

Anonymous said...

Just curious. Has TSA considered putting other people on the 'no fly' list besides terrorists, such as fugitives, dangerous felons, and outstanding warrants? Why should we let these people on planes?

Jen said...

Bob,
I have to take exception with your closing comment. If you are writing a TSA blog, you ARE every bit as much a TSA spokesperson as anyone who works in their public affairs department. I'm not going to get embroiled in all the other arguments, but please understand and accept your role,or find someone else to write this blog.

Bob said...

Jen, thanks for stopping by. I'm going to copy and pasted what I posted earlier:

Bob said...
Obviously, I understand that I'm a spokesperson for the TSA on the TSA blog. In fact, I sometimes refer to myself as a digital spokesperson.

When I said that I wasn't an official "media" spokesperson, I simply meant that the way I write on the blog can be a bit snarky at times unlike anything you would hear or read from a Public Affairs Officer. That's it.

Thanks,

Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team

January 27, 2010 1:29 PM

Anonymous said...

So how long does it take for the redress program to work?

More Please said...

Just curious. Has Homeland Security considered putting other people on the 'no fly' list besides people who have committed acts of terrorism, such as people who have been accused of committing acts of terrorism, people who have been accused of planning acts of terrorism, people accused of giving money to organizations that give money to other organizations who are reputed to support the commission of acts of terrorism, fugitives, dangerous felons, people with outstanding warrants for parole violations, people who have ever been convicted of any violent crime, people with outstanding warrants for failure to appear in court for a speeding ticket, people who have lots of unpaid parking tickets, people who have been accused of violent crime, people who owe unpaid child support, people who owe taxes, people who owe the phone company money, people who owe a bookie money, people who owe me money, people who have incriminating photos of me, my political adversaries, people who are politically subversive, and people who fart a lot? Why should we let these people on planes?

Tim Miller said...

Regarding the no-fly or screening lists. I have heard that people whose name appear on the list (those who are not actually bad guys) deliberately misspell their names to avoid screening. So, do you think that the bad guys haven't figured out that they can, oh, change their names or get, I don't know, FAKE IDs? Only the good guys that happen to have a name that's on the list suffer. Does the TSA publish the number of screenings based on name lists that have yielded arrests?
Thanks,
Tim Miller
San Francisco, CA

Anonymous said...

Fix the situation. Take Mikey off the list and EXPLAIN it to the individual airlines. Or sit back and wait for a lawsuit on dicrimination since it has now been brought to your attention. No "list" or administrator of a list is perfect but with no one trying to correct the issue what do you except this family and others to do. Redress didn't work and now TSA is allowing a spokesperson to diminish the importance of what this family is tryin to expose. Airlines aren't safe. I bet the boy scout is!

RB said...

Bob said...
Jen, thanks for stopping by. I'm going to copy and pasted what I posted earlier:

Bob said...
Obviously, I understand that I'm a spokesperson for the TSA on the TSA blog. In fact, I sometimes refer to myself as a digital spokesperson.

When I said that I wasn't an official "media" spokesperson, I simply meant that the way I write on the blog can be a bit snarky at times unlike anything you would hear or read from a Public Affairs Officer. That's it.

Thanks,

Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team

January 27, 2010 1:29 PM

February 1, 2010 11:33 AM
....................

For anybody who is new to the TSA Blog, please know that I’m a blogger and not an official TSA media spokesperson. The way I write and address issues is different than a spokesperson would address issues with traditional media, and I certainly didn’t mean to belittle the experience of any families who have been through this. Sincerely,

Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
posted by Bob at 3:57 PM on Jan 15, 2010
................
So the Internet is not a form of Media?

Cover ups, on top of cover ups on top of more cover ups.

Anonymous said...

Bob, the redress program. How long does it take for a child to get off it?

Anonymous said...

yeah thats real nice. he's 8. stop fooling around and help the kid. is it that hard to deal with bad publicity? no. i think not. so now i think it's time to apologize to this EIGHT YEAR OLD about the harsh words, and GET HIM OFF THE LIST. of all the things in the world to get me angry, this one is pretty high up there. you're not doing our country a favor by covering this up, so deal with it and do something.

-VERYupsetAMERICAN

Anonymous said...

I can tell you my 10 year old is DEFINITELY on the no-fly list as well and I've filled out paperwork twice with TSA. First telling me that his birth cert and social security card are not enough valid information. He's 10, he doesn't have a driver's license! Give me a break - there is a serious communication problem here!

Anonymous said...

This blog post should be taken down as patently false. It is a lie. See

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/26/year-old-ohio-girl-placed-fly-list/?test=latestnews

Craig said...

My son has autism and it is very hard to get through TSA. He is very hyper in line and make inappropriate comments. Nevertheless, he is a special needs kid who needs to be treated with respect. It is very hard for him to wait in line for an hour to get through. There should be more emphasis on special needs kids with Asperger's syndrome and autism. The TSA employees just are not trained on this. There are some excellent free newsletter that they can get to give them the basics which I have gotten from
www.aspergerssociety.org
and www.americanautismsociety.org

Every TSA employee needs SOME training on recognizing the special needs of our most vulnerable citizens.

vierect said...

"So we have to give up more of our privacy because the TSA can't comprehend common sense." i couldnt agree more!

Anonymous said...

Isaac Newton said...

Bob said:
There are no children on the No Fly or Selectee lists.

What happens is the child’s name is a match or similar match to an actual individual on the No Fly or Selectee Watch List.
___________
You're playing word games here, Bob. There are no people of any age on the No Fly or Selectee lists. There are only names on the No Fly and Selectee lists. Names which may be used by people who are 2, or 8, or 16, or 35, or 85 years old. Any idiot could see that the same name may be used by a large number of people of different ages.

I'm also surprised that your watch list database is good enough to have the bad guys birthdates but not their addresses. If you knew where they were, you could just go arrest them and give them a chance to either clear their name or receive the punishment you think they deserve.
---------------------

Agree to this...very well said Mr. Isaac Newton.

Bert said...

The TSA is another agency in government that we don't need or want. It was designed to control the American public and will not help in catching any terrorist. Terrorists are to smart to go through this scrutiny and will find other ways to implement there plans.

Like most government agencies they tend to exceed their original mission and usurp power and authority they don't have.

The TSA, in my opinion, went beyond their authority and into the realm of civil rights violations when the started asking people to remove their shoes, belts, jewelery, and started patting down people.

Anonymous said...

I would bet there are a few Vietnam Vets that understand children should not be treated as exceptions. Soon as an enemy sees children are excluded, they would be considered as possible carriers. If you don't believe that, talk to a Vietnam Veteran.

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